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« Oh dear, free funding for increased early childcare may be counter productive | Main | NZ fails to demonstrate how freedom of the press works »

Comments

Matthew

This is one country I will never return to to live in. Not to condemn all the people who live there because I have friends there and I'm sure I share similar view with many people there. But Britain is going down the gurgler with low birth rates and the murder of the defenceless and innocent. That's all it is, MURDER, MURDER, and more MURDER.

Come on I'm now waiting for all those posters who are going to call me names and refer to a "womens right", I'm waiting. Feel free to defend murder, feel free.

fugley

That's OK Matthew, I doubt the Brits will notice your absence.

I would prefer there was no need for abortion, but as there is a need, it is a need that is best met in hygenic and caring conditions.

Would you prefer a return to the backyard days? Of abortions being performed with knitting needles and coathangers?

Better education on use of, and availability of contraception would help reduce the need for abortions, but that doesn't sit well with god botherers either, does it?

So matthew, since you don't like abortion, other than avoidingg the UK, what's YOUR solution?

peasant

Adoption seems logical fugley. Maybe people could try and take responsibility for their actions rather than killing the innocent

peasant

May God defend the children of NZ from fugley and his ilk

fugley

adoption was tried in the past, but too mnay kids weren't adopted, were left in orphangages and other institutions to live horrid miserable lives.

I do take repsonsibility for my actions, but no method of contraception is failsafe.

Further, if I knew a child would be born with a severe disability I would think it kinder to abort than to have the child born knowing the pain and suffering ahead of it.

And peasant, contrary to what you like to believe, your god, your myths and your folly holds no sway over me

peasant

The only myths being promoted here are from your keyboard. Let me get this straight: you think that

  1. the life of an orphan is worthless and should be terminated
  2. the life of a disabled person is worthless and should be terminated
  3. the life of an inconveniently conceived child is worthless and should be terminated
  4. the moral foundation of western civilization is folly

I heard an interesting statistic today on the percentage of "civilized psychopaths" present in society ...

fugley

1. I did not say that; I simply pointed out that adoption is not the panacea you claimed.

2. I did not say that. I did not propose euthansasia for those who become disabled through accident or illness. But I do honestly believe it is better to abort than to give birth to a severely disabled child.

3. I did not say that, but I allow that some women who are carrying an "inconveniently conceived" foetus may wish to choose abortion. I may not agree with their decision, but I believe they should be permitted that choice.

4. The only folly I perceive here is when someone holds opinions that cannot be logically defended so declare it to be an issue of morality. Their morality, not that of others.

I hear interesting statstics everyday; today's was 74% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

peasant

1. Adoption/orphanages are better than killing
2. Life is better than death, and who gets to judge the worth of a particular DNA structure? You are reverting to the law of the jungle
3. "some women .. may wish to abort". Stop equivocating. In practice, it's abortion on demand, with ~300,000 NZ babies eliminated (that we know about) so far
4. Interesting tactic; but isn't this whole argument about morality?! I am dismayed if valuing human life is a moral opinion "that cannot be logically defended". This is not an abstract philosophical debate! Or do you value people in terms of logic, numbers, economic units?

Better minds than mine have argued logically, cogently, exhaustively against this IMMORAL practice.

Peter

Fugley asks>

"Would you prefer a return to the backyard days? Of abortions being performed with knitting needles and coathangers?"

Point of clarification - it would be the poor who would resort to this.

The rich would get the abortion overseas or through paying higher sum of money to achieve by other methods.

I don't like abortion at all but it has been with us a long long time.

John Boy

I wonder if there is any stats on who aborts? Aquaintances back from 10 yrs in the UK are disturbed at the social changes they saw in their time there. They are of a view that the UK is going down a gurgler very quickly. It was claimed that some parts of London are no go areas for police now and operate under Sharia law. Eastern european organised crime is well entrenched and, horrors, some super market salads were being made by slave labour illegal immigrants who, like Borat, thought hygiene was what you called out to someone called Jean.

If its the white middle class not producing / aborting while the immigrants produce at full speed the UK is going to be in deep trouble very shortly.

fugley

"2. Life is better than death...". Maybe, in your opinion, but not in mine.

Would you choose to be born disabled, were that choice available to you?

Are you happy to go on "living" when you can no longer remember your name, wipe your own arse or cope with the pain unless in a drug induced fog?

Your choices, maybe, but not mine.

I am happy to see the grossly disabled aborted. I am working for law change to allow voluntary euthanasia. And I'll support abortion whenever the god botheres try to go "moralistic' on us.

peasant

I wonder what you will do when you have gained the power of life and death over vulnerable people

fugley

peasant, whatever makes you think I will, or even want, to ahve the power of life and death over people?

I simply wish to time my own death to suit myself.

Fletch

"Would you prefer a return to the backyard days? Of abortions being performed with knitting needles and coathangers?"

Yes, yes I would. I am sick to death of the argument that if abortion is made illegal than it will go underground - LET IT GO UNDERGROUND.

You can use that argument for anything illegal; "oh we can't let people buy drugs underground because there are nasty people aronud that scene. Lets' make it legal and no one will get hurt".

What a cop-out. If someone wants to murder their baby son or daughter it should be as hard and unpleasant for them as possible in my opinion; maybe then we'll get less people trying to do it.

fugley

Well fletch, we can also use the argument that many things that ARE illegal SHOULD be legal.

Recreational drug use, for example. Many of the banned drugs are far less harmful than the currently legal ones.

And, if addiction is a problem, then surely it should be treated as a health issue, not a criminal issue.

But I must say, you do a very good turn at the emotional heart strings bullshit - no one in thsi thread is advocating murder. Or did you see something I missed?

peasant

I shudder to think what ELSE the twisted mind of fugley and his gang of radical state-worshipping socialists would like to see legalised.

How callously these social engineers discard the timeless principles on which a decent civilization was built. How foolish are the postmodern relativistic wordsmiths who deconstruct, brick by brick, the wisdom of the sages which have protected the West from the barbarians at the gates. How selfish is a generation that pays lip service to womens rights but encourages prostitution and supports the medieval misogyny of Islam.

The Labour Party is at last being revealed as the manipulative, deceptive ideologues they truly are. Soon we shall see the end of treating the families of New Zealand with contempt; of riding roughshod over the will of the electorate to push your immoral agenda; the end of your lies and obfuscations, the end of marginalizing Christians, the end of attacking and destroying public servants, the end of your pride and arrogance.

It's time to take a fall. Goodbye Aunty Helen and your crew of utopian marxist academics.

fugley

So, like so mnay others, when the questions are too hard to answer, attack the person or attack arguments not even raised.

For the record, so you may forget what you THINK my ideology is, and actually address the points I raise:

I am not, and never have been, a Labour Party member.

I did not vote Labour at the last election.

I am not a "state worshipper"; I leave worship to those incapable of rational thought.

I dot support "the medieval misogyny of Islam". I am on record here, and elsewhere as being an opponent of Islam, as I am of all religion. That was one thing Marx was 100% on, although, were he writing today no doubt he would substitute TV for religion.

"...
destroying public servants" is not the sle preserve of Labour, it has been going on ever since the rise of corporatism in the past 20 odd years, under governments of all stripes.

So, care to get back to the topic at hand, show you are capable of thought and not simply a dogmatic sloganeer?

Had you the choice, would you prefer to be born severly disabled or be aborted?

Had you the choice, would you prefer endless pain, alleviated only by a drug inducd haze that robs you of your humaness, or euthanasia?

Assume you are woman, pregnant as a result of rape. Would you prefer the constant reminder of that rape or abortion.

What about if it was your 15 year old daughter raped? Would you want her to go through the lifelong trauma of mothering a rapists sprog, or the quick relief of abortion?

Nah, why the fuck should I bother waiting for your answers - I already know waht they are. God won't let you use your free will, will he?


Fletch

fugley, in my book abortion is murder. I recently read a story of a woman who was pregnant and it was found that the baby was going to have Down's Syndrome (I think is was). She did a lot of soul searching before finally deciding to take her pregnancy to term.

She had the baby and yes it did have the dysfunction, but she said it was the most blessed and amazing thing that have ever happened to her and her family. The little girl brought the whole family together in a way they had never previously been; in fact, so much so, that they adopted another Down's child.

Just because a baby is diagnosed with something YOU think is bad doesn't mean that the child can't live a productive life and make a contribution (Down's children are very loving and affectionate).

You're basing your decision on feelings and not what is right and wrong.

Sometimes the most beautiful gifts come wrapped in newspaper.

peasant

fugley, Sometimes I prefer to speak freely instead of just responding to your endless cascade of excuses. All your edge cases and rationalizaions add up to the same thing: 300 000 children dismembered and incinerated. IT IS EVIL

fugley

What a wonderful heart warming story.

Of course, mongolism is not one of the more sever disabilities, is it?

I notice, like pheasant, you tatally avoided the questions I posed. Why?

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