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« How sad, too bad, never mind | Main | Scientists don't believe this... »

Comments

fugley

Yes, how true the terrible things done to children in the name of religion.

A fundamentalist church pastor had sex with two of his teenage daughters to educate them on how to be good wives, a South Australian court has heard

http://stuff.co.nz/4184553a12.html

Ian

Yeah, very good point Fugs and I totally agree with you...the guy is clearly a manipulative fruitbat who will face the music when the choir sings...

Now, what would you say about a parent who indoctrinates their child with, "There is no God, do not believe in Christ", and it then turns out that they're wrong...?

fugley

It will never happen, Ian. There is no god, the default position at birth is (as close as the word goes) atheism. None of us are born believers, why is that? Don't you think god could have coded himself in to our DNA?

fugley

BTW, I am not aware of any one using atheism as an excuse for murderr, rape or war.

Athesim doesn't have the power over people's minds to force them in to doing things they don't want to do; it takes a religion to be that coercive.

Ian

Gee, and all this while various evolutionary scientists are trying to make us think we're hardwired with a "God gene".

I'll memo them regarding their error. :)

Atheism has precisely the power I ascribe to it.

Hitler, Mao, Stalin. None felt beholden to a higher power, and thus felt powerful enough to inflict mass damage on other people. A direct result of not having a Christian belief.

The world's biggest genocidal maniacs tend to be those without belief.

dad4justice

"The world's biggest genocidal maniacs tend to be those without belief."

Do you not find that fact rather odd Mr Fugley ?

Danyl Mclauchlan

Hitler, Mao, Stalin. None felt beholden to a higher power, and thus felt powerful enough to inflict mass damage on other people.

Hitler referred to God more often than your average Anglican Bishop so I think you can rule him out of your evil atheist club.

Mao and Stalin certainly felt that we were beholden to a higher power - that of historical materialism. I don't think you'll find many modren atheists that believe history is inevitably leading us to a utopian communist paradise.

The world's biggest genocidal maniacs tend to be those without belief.

The worlds biggest maniacs have all had an absolute belief in the truth and rightness of their cause.

dad4justice

Danyl ; you talk a lot about Stalin . Did you know he said ?

" We have deposed the czars of the earth and we shall now dethrone the Lord of Heaven ."

fugley

And after he deposed the czars, after he dethroned the lord of heaven, what did he put in its palce? A cult of personaility with himself at the centre, something which can only succeed when people have already been brainwashed into believing there is a "higher power" above them.

I guess you agree with Danyl.

dad4justice

Mr Fugley why would a man like Stalin talk about a Lord , a Throne and a Heaven ???

fugley

maybe he (Stalin) was talking metaphorically, using parables. I don't know, why don't you ask him?

dad4justice

I think Stalin is dead Mr Fugley , or has been reincarnated in Helen Clarks body ? Ask her Mr Fugley.

robk

Not to mention:

Pol Pot
Chairman Mao
Kim Il Sung

Sam Finnemore

"Not to mention:

Pol Pot
Chairman Mao
Kim Il Sung"

All of whom espoused the historical inevitability of the victory of a new order, and came to believe that they themselves were the agents of destiny. It's not religious disbelief that makes a dictator - it's a completely overdeveloped belief in yourself as the fountain of all good. Tyrants with religious beliefs (Hitler, Qin Shihuang, Heliogabalus) put themselves at the centre of the cosmos, and bent contrary views out of the way; atheistic tyrants (Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot) similarly bent a secular worldview to put themselves at the fulcrum of history.

Ian

Danyl... you wrote: "Hitler referred to God more often than your average Anglican Bishop so I think you can rule him out of your evil atheist club."

Hitler used religion cynically in a bid to transfer public loyalty gradually from the Church to himself.

He was no more a Christian or a believer in God than I am a Muslim.

robk

Sam

It would seem that atheistic despots and religious despots all fall into the category of self aggrandised individuals...

It's just that fugley said: "BTW, I am not aware of any one using atheism as an excuse for murderr, rape or war."

I suspect the aforementioned atheists fit the bill - along with assorted ayotollahs and some rogue "Christians"

I say "rogue" Christians because Jesus never condoned murder or rape, and there is some doubt about Him condoning war...

usabikes

Hmm, yes Ian, its not quite like the Bible stories we had in Sunday School telling us about the wonderful heaven with Jesus & lambs and flowers is it? "Be kind and good and you will go to heaven one day" we were told. In comparison we have a religion that states that the only guaranteed way to heaven is to die as a martyr, killing infidels.

Strangely though we still hear voices saying that Sunday School was also an evil and fallacious indoctrination which will apparently turn us & our kids into unthinking, uncaring mass muderers, as these Muslim kids dream of becoming.

But maybe not all "gods" are the same? Not all "divine judgement" is the same? Maybe even all religions are not the same? Even those which claim the same God - as Islam does with the Judeo/Christian God.

You know its pretty simple these days to read many of the "sacred texts" of Islam on-line. And a Bible can be pinched from any hotel room. How hard can it be to learn the differences?

Frankly the kind of arguments being put forward in defending Islam around here recently are on the same level as someone in the 1930's who says "Nazism is not a threat as I have some lovely German friends." Similarly, attacks are made on the faith of Christ by statements similar to "all Germans are Nazis" (viz. all Bible-believing Christians are deluded repressed morons) conveniently ignoring the Confessing Church, Deitrich Bonhoeffer, those who sheltered Jews and many others who joined them in the camps. The rationale is never reversed in the individual's mind for some reason...

And I've got to disagree with your point too fugley. Aren't you transposing your particular experiences (or lack thereof) onto others? I knew the wonderful God from my earliest memory, from my Mum's womb, for the first years of my life we talked all the time, I literally felt Him with me all the time. I thought this was normal for everyone else too. I was very disturbed to find out this wasn't so, but just because they were dead to Him didn't make Him go away.

Good night.

Mickmac

Fugley
I was at a home the other day.
athiests all.
except the little girl who says prayers at mealtimes and thinks it silly to not believe in God.
Mum smiles and doesn't know where she got it from.

so I don't accept that the birth position is atheism.
some say, God is the first position and it gets educated out of us.

others say the same thing about the spirit world.
that as kids we are connected to it and it gets educated out of us.

Danyl Mclauchlan

Hitler used religion cynically in a bid to transfer public loyalty gradually from the Church to himself.

He was no more a Christian or a believer in God than I am a Muslim.

Hitler dreamed up something he called 'Positive Christianity' in which Jesus was an Aryan superman. His ideas were so far from any other form of Christian faith that I think its reasonable to say that he wasn't actually a Christian. But his belief in God - whom he believed had chosen him to save the Aryan race - appears to have been utterly genuine. Hitlers companions - such as Speer and Goebbels - report him making private statements that support this argument. Goebbels makes the following comment in his diary:

"The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay."

dad4justice

"The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay."

He was on 24 different daily medications Danyl and still you promote the deranged idiot as a religious poster boy . Look why don't you stop posting such utter rubbish as you are really looking stupid , beyond repair, as if you may need to take 24 pills a day ? the next thing you know Danyl will be using Charles Manson as a religious role model .

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