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« Quick, hand the godless Europeans more rope... | Main | Whoops »

Comments

Paula

Ian,

Excellent insight by the athesist.

Trouble is when indoctrinated by a religion,
oftentimes, non-believers can see the truth much clearer.

I don't blame that Catholic daly at all though, as she may have seen a photo of the last Pope kissing the
Koran, and as you now if the Pope says/does it, the rest follow like sheep.

Especially scary when, this current Pope says those outside the Roman Catholic Church as not Christians,
because they do not accept the primacy of the Pope.

Lucyna

Paula, that is a bit of an exaggeration. The position of the Catholic Church is not that those outside of the Roman Catholic Church are not Christians. The position is that that Protestant "churches" cannot be called churches because they do not contain all the elements necessary to be called churches. Churches and Christians are two different (albeit similar) things.

Lucyna

As for the God should be called "Allah" idiocy; being a Bishop does not make a person immune from error. As St John Chrysostom is credited with saying:

“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their sign posts."

Seems quite apt in this case.

Paula

Lucyna,

I am now wondering whether to believe you, or my brother and other Catholics who do not agree with you.

I think the most recent word my brother used to describe me is 'imposter'

Oh and then there was the time my mother was not going to attend my wedding (thank God nor did I)
as the future husband, was not Catholic.

You need to go back and read some posts, or listen to what others write to you.
But good try.

Paula

Lucyna,

How can the church and Christians be 2 different things.

The church is the Body of Christ....we are the temple.

Up until Christ, the temple was the building, now (after Christ) who rent the veil in two....WE who accept Christ etc etc are the temple, and the Kindgom of God is within, and the same idols that were in the temple are within our hearts.

That is why Christ said, NOW if you even look upon a woman and lust after her in your heart etc etc.

It is NOT the building, we are the building that He is the cornerstone of, and we are being built up in HIM....
NOT the Catholic Church
It is CHRIST and CHRIST alone.

Lucyna

Paula, it is important when reading and trying to understand Vatican documents to keep with RCC concepts, not your own. So, I understand that you consider Christians and the Church to be exactly the same - the RCC does not consider both to be the same. Therefore, your interpretation that the RCC does not consider Christians outside of the RCC to be Christians is incorrect.

Also, whatever "others" have written to me is immaterial. I follow Christ, not human beings. That's why I came back to the Church after 20 years as a godless heathen.

usabikes

While the name "Allah" has been used by Arab speaking Christians since before the birth of Muhammad and is perfectly acceptable for those Christians to use, to blur the lines between the Biblical YHWH and the Qur'anic Allah is very dangerous ground.

(Aside:~ YHWH is commonly spoken as "Yahweh", but we're really not sure of the vowels involved, the writing of vowels having been a relatively recent addition to the Hebrew language. The english term "Jehovah" is inaccurate as it incorporates the vowels of YHWH and the consonants of "Adonai" which is another Biblical term for God)

This matter is often quite vigorously disputed even among Christian missionaries and PhD level Islamicists. I did myself a huge favour and bought Mark Durie's book "Revelation?" at the Mosques and Miracles seminar. This is a definitive work based on primary sources in this area which has not attracted much clear scholarship over the years (that I can find anyway).

Mark does a fine job of giving a thorough discussion of whether the two names refer to the same God. He comes up with a resounding "No" which serves to undermine the Islamic apologists & evangelists to the West who love to emphasise that "we all worship the same God" and are pushing for the implementation of a Judeo-Christian-Islamic ethical worldview for the West to replace the old Judeo-Christian worldview.

This poor Bishop seems not to understand that he is the servant of another "god" altogether by advising on this course of action. He invites the scattering & destruction of his flock.

Paula

Thanks USAbikes

I only found that out myself about 3 yrs ago, through Chuck Missler, so
appreciate the info you also add.

I do think at this stage that the two religions Islam and Catholicism will combine, or become one together for the sake of 'unity' however some will not have a part of it.

We will have to see.


Paula

I think you need to re-read this Lucyna.

You said:-
So, I understand that you consider Christians and the Church to be exactly the same - the RCC does not consider both to be the same. Therefore, your interpretation that the RCC does not consider Christians outside of the RCC to be Christians is incorrect.
cin


So, I understand that you consider Christians and the Church to be exactly the same - the RCC does not consider both to be the same. Therefore, your interpretation that the RCC does not consider Christians outside of the RCC to be Christians is incorrect.

Lucyna

Sorry, Paula, I'm not with you.

Paula

Lucyna, Just foumd a great book on-line, and went to start reading it, and this
came up....
It should be self-explanatory

"If a man refuse to hear the (Roman Catholic) Church, let him be considered—so the Lord commands—as a heathen and a publican."

‑Pope Pius XII, in his encyclical letter, The Mystical Body of Christ. June 29. 1943.

AcidComments


Some of the early Popes were known to worship Satan, have concubines and keep large private Papal Armies.

Lucyna

Paula, without taking the time to research the context of the statement of Pius XII, I can say this: that what Pius said and what the latest statement for theologians on what a Church is, the statements are not explicitly related. Which, I understand to you is a moot point, but then I have to ask, why do you care, if you are no longer Catholic, what the Catholic Church thinks about you and the "church" (by Her definition) you belong to if you are no longer under Her authority? Unless you believe that Her sanction for you in your situation outside Her domain is necessary?

Anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church elicits an attack from you an others on Her, whether it is related or not. Why not do what I did when I renounced all allegiance to Christianity more than 20 years ago and just ignore the Catholic Church as if she has no relevance to you whatsoever? Unless it does matter, that is. Which it seems to. Which is weird, if you are no longer part of Her. Or are you?

Paula

Lucyna,

I think if I explained it to you, you would not understand.

Put it this way, when Paul
corrected false doctrine, and wept night and day for three days, warning of the error that would come from within, and if you did a study of how many times the word 'deception' is mentioned
and how some are called to 'warn' some are watchmen,
you would understand.

Others are called to teach, and expose error, others preach, others move in the prophetic, they are the gifts given to the body for the maturing of the saints, however I doubt you would believe/accept that, and in not doing so, you are not aware of it, no more than Paul would be when he was killing Christians, thinking he was doing God a favour, when in fact he was wrong, and when he started preaching the truth, others
persecuted him...because of their blindness or ignorance.

Its all written in the Bible if you care to read it.

...until the Body comes to maturity in CHRIST.

Oh and I also warn about Destiny also...just as Paul did.

Paula

Oh and no need to research
what Pope Pius said, it is written for you to see.

What you do with it, it your choice, you can either chose to ignore it, and continue on your merry way.
Or you can wake up to the truth of it, and do something about it.

I have delivered the evidence for you to see.
I have done my part...the rest is up to you.

And you don't need to be
so concerned with where I am coming from and why, just be concerned with the evidence before your eyes.

george

Though I think this Dutchman is deluded, IMHO it is probably more important to know what God calls us.

There's only two options.

Mine or Not Mine.

Ryan Sproull

usabikes,

I ask a Muslim, "Who is Allah?" They say, "The omnipotent creator of the universe." And I ask a Christian, "Who is God?" And they say, "The omnipotent creator of the universe."

There are two of them?! Crikey. Crikey dick.

Paula

And yet...
one omnipotent creator of the universe tells his followers to kill the Jews and Christians, whom the 'other' omnipotent creator of the universe says
are His children.

I guess people would prefer the first omnipotent creator of the universe, who offers 72 virgins to his followers if they suicide bomb the others.

Paula

And I used to think my father was Santa Claus,
and my girlfriend thought her father was Santa Claus

Ryan Sproull

It is moderately depressing to think I have two things in common with the extremist right-wing nationalist writing The Dissident News. Firstly, I don't believe in any big invisible men called God. Secondly, The Dark Knight series were awesome comics.

Still, it's nice to think that if we met, I could say, "Hey, you're wrong, and Hayek's an idiot - read some Polanyi - but hey, how awesome was Dark Knight Returns?"

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