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I agree with you post Andrei but I think Bishop Tamaki and co have a different take on the matter.

I might be wrong but I think the good Bishop is an adherrent to Kingdom Now theology which teaches that Jesus can not return until Christians claim back the world in a temporal sense.

Sort of the Christian form of Jihad,but not so bloody!


Andrei - you are so right when you say:

" .. in dealing with matters of worldly concern, politicians will raise the ire of those disadvantaged by their policies. And politicians who claim they are working in the name of Christ, will by the very nature of things alienate others from Christ and his Church."

But hang on a minute. This is surely the disadvantage of religion itself!

People like Tamaki bring a "perfect world" vision that is just not possible to achieve - there are few decisions that can be made in politics OR IN LIFE that will be for pure advantage. Typically you trade of advantages and disadvantages, benefits and costs! Even Christians working in concert need to agree on these things!

Like you say Andrei, much better for these guys to waffle on the sidelines, to tele-evangelise, and not to have to take responsibility for decisions that are made for all of us.

I wonder how much more we will hear of Richard Lewis too! Right now we have a dis-established Destiny Party and nothing in its place.

The above obviously calls into question the concept of a perfect man or a perfect woman. Meaningless.

John Boy

"...decisions that are made for all of us."

And this is what pisses me off most. They do what pressure gropups want, ignore the majority, don't take responsibility and are not accountable when it doesn't work.

Politics today is all about greed and ego, its the opposite of what Christianity teaches. The real infuence comes from spreading the Gospel and setting an example, not being in politics under a religious banner.


Reading this statement from Copeland and Baldock:

.. it is not clear to me what went wrong. Tamaki did deregister Destiny on the basis that Lewis could be co-leader of the new party. It was logical to say what was concluding and what was getting off the ground.

Did Gordon Copeland over-react? Did Copeland set up Tamaki, did Tamaki set up Copeland, or do neither of these apply?

Matt L

Blind leading the blind? Both fall in the ditch.


The above obviously calls into question the concept of a perfect man or a perfect woman. Meaningless.

You have no idea of what Christianity is really about at all Peter.

The only perfect man who lived ever was Jesus Christ. We are called upon to emulate him but being imperfect fallen creatures ourselves never can.

With God's grace we learn each time we stumble and move on.

Sometimes the God often through the Church tells us things about ourselves we would prefer not to hear. Some reject the God and the Church as a result.

Ultimately Christianity is about building personal relationship with Jesus Christ our saviour, not about telling other people what to do.

You accept or reject the message as you choose and live with the consequences.

Steve Taylor - Deputy Leader, Direct Democracy

Andrei - just so I'm clear: I'm a Christian, and I'm the Deputy Leader of a registered Political Party - is there a place for me?


Steve you must have missed this paragraph in the post

That is not to say that Christians should not be involved in politics, far from it. It surely would be a good thing to have leaders whose world view and outlook is formed by the Church and who look to God and the scriptures for guidance in managing the day to day affairs of the nation. And to do so in humility and full awareness of their own human failings and limitations.

In truth I don't like identity politics, even when I identify with the identity being catered to.

And Christian parties in NZ, well they haven't achieved anything much and the behaviour of some of the leaders - well enough said.

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