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Comments

John Boy

Ther National Party comment (see below) is better as it points out the Minister can exempt if he wants. Not much chance here though. Shit, meet fan.

"Labour has confirmed that Sunday schools are also at risk of closure if they do not meet strict regulations to become licensed early childhood education centres, says National's Associate Education spokeswoman, Paula Bennett.

Education Minister Chris Carter confirmed in Parliament this afternoon that a gathering of only three children under adult supervision constitutes an early childhood education centres, so must be fully licensed.

"It is patently ridiculous to expect Sunday schools to provide sleeping spaces, wash areas, and have personal educational portfolios for every child under their supervision.

"Their church-going parents are only metres away and leave their children under adult supervision for less than two hours.

"Labour admits it has been actively cracking down on these types of childminding services and has already forced the closure of 10 gym crèches.

"Their only answer is a review that has now been going on for close to five years.

"The Minister has the authority to exempt centres from these ludicrous regulations under section 316 (1) b of the Education Act 1989. He is refusing to do so.

"Labour is penalising responsible parents with its intractable stance. Parents know what's best for their children. This is yet another example of a busybody Government interfering unnecessarily in people's lives.

"It is time common sense prevailed and I am calling on Chris Carter to find some."

peter

How do we argue that parents are "only metres away" - kids are commonly dropped off, or they make their own way to Sunday Schools. (Parents gave up church going years ago)

There must be a line somewhere though. What is the status of a birthday party or having a couple of kids around to play with your own child?

As for the safety of Kindergartens versus Creches versus Sunday Schools versus the Scouting and Guiding movement .. well the above is the sequence I would run with.

baxta

Are the Brownie Packs safe from this Social Engineering.

Fay

Andrei
Re "they have to register with the Government and become licensed. And this of course requires meeting all the regulations pertaining to "early childhood development units" covered by statute. Whatever they are now and whatever they may become in the future."

Community playgroups (often run by local churches) are in the process of being caught up in this same type of licensing system.

In the past a playgroup has been able to apply for a grant from the Ministry of Education to buy equipment. Under the proposed new rules - no licence, no grant.

Inventory2

Rest assured that the church I go to won't be getting licenced - nor will we be stopping Sunday School! As one who manages an ECE service, I am only too familiar with licencing requirements, and it is absurd that Sunday Schools, gym creches etc should have to comply. Next thing, they will want Sunday Schools to teach Te Whaariki - the Early Childhood Curriculum - instead of the Bible. There is a sinister agenda playing out here.

Chandler Frank

I cringe to think how this Sunday School thing could be used as a weapon:

“I don’t like how involved your church is in politics,

…what’s that? You’re operating an unlicensed ECE center every
Sunday?

…well, looks like you’ll have to back down or face a hefty fine and the
closure of your Sunday School”

http://frankobservations.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/sunday-schools-go-bye-bye/

Quite easy to threaten those churches (and maybe other institutions?) that dissent. And could very well scare many into submission, or at least keeping quiet. (Trust me, it won’t scare mine…)

dad4justice

These secular socialists will stoop to the low levels of depravity to endorse the use of VULNERABLE CHILDREN as political pawns in a SICK Game !!

Paula

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state.

They can't have it both ways.

dave

yeah, I had a bit to say on that as well.

peter

Baxta says:

"Are the Brownie Packs safe from this Social Engineering"

Baxta, Brownies themselves were socially engineered!! They are a throwback to imperialist England, and the nationalistic writings of one Rudyard Kipling!

So no, Brownies are not safe from social engineering. They have always been in danger.

And Fay says:

"In the past a playgroup has been able to apply for a grant from the Ministry of Education to buy equipment. Under the proposed new rules - no licence, no grant"

This type of rule for funding has always been a factor. There is a need to get incorporated or equivalent before a group of friends is legally an organisation.

dad4justice

Peter is it legally organized for Peter to have toilet sex with men while he holds the position of a husband married to a certain Prime Minister ?
Thank you cheers Peter ?

fugley

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state.

They can't have it both ways.

Posted by: Paula | November 09, 2007 at 08:39 PM

=====
As NZ has no written constitution, there is no such separation.

As NZ's system of government is based on the UK experience where unelected god botherers sit in parliament, I doubt you can makwe a case for such separation in NZ.

Furthermore, separation of church and state does NOT mean that goverment cannot make laws affecting religious groups, it simply means that the government will not make laws establishing a state religion.

Here endeth the lesson.

Mickmac

It's fantastic!

Lets have more.
finally the silly billy soft centered western christians can experience what it is like for the rest of the planet and their faith.

I say roll it on.

The more nanny state the better.
hell the churches can go House 2 House (acts 20.20)

maybe we'll suffer what the church suffers in Iraq, Sudan, Saudia Arabia, Iran, yemen, Eithiopia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, China, Burme, Maylaysia, Nepal, Uzbekistan, Cambodia, Laos, Quatar, Egypt, Morroco, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, and a whole bunch of other places.

go to www.VOM.com for more up to date info.

Maybe our fat easy living brethern who aren't prepared to stand up against Helengrad now will make a real decision for Christ or fall away and stop taking up pwe space.

Or they'll have to go underground and we'll then see who really is Jesus's.

Oh yeah, let is come.
Lord Jesus give us the strehcth and balls to really be yours.

Oh and please remove the blinkers from Peter and Stans eyes so that they can see you too.

Let them be saved.

Then the Peters of this world

Mickmac

Can see you in all your glory.

Mickmac

ohh and fugley too.

dad4justice

Yes the Peter's of this world are a funny lot , walk on water brother, as Jesus is a cool dude .

baxta

Peter...You bring up your little girls to the ideals of the present Prime Minister and her associates. I will settle for the principles of Scouting and the literary works of the great writer and humanist Rudyard Kipling.

Eyes Wide Open

Umm. wonder when lower primary school classes will also come under early childhood education.
One teacher for ever six 5 year olds.
Sounds good. They might learn. Maybe they should adopt that policy for high schools also.
Oh sorry. Its not about learning anymore - just interacting.
My mistake.

Fay

Peter, you said

"And Fay says:

"In the past a playgroup has been able to apply for a grant from the Ministry of Education to buy equipment. Under the proposed new rules - no licence, no grant"

This type of rule for funding has always been a factor. There is a need to get incorporated or equivalent before a group of friends is legally an organisation."

This is not true. I have led a church-run community playgroup for a number of years, and we have not been required to be licensed to apply for and receive MOE grants twice a year.

peter

Fay

This may not have applied to such groups in the past, but I have seen this before with other types of grants.

Incorporation is a sign of commitment, it spells out the not for profit principle, it is limited liability.

Without incorporation, you have a bunch of friends who may come and go over time. It can be harder to assess how funding has been applied without the statutory reporting requirements.

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