"Some people wonder why church leaders almost always back left wing Governments, despite the fact that conservative parties always have a much much higher proportion of true believers and church goers.
The answer tends to be that few (not all) church leaders actually literally believe in God (as taught in the Bible), and are far more concerned with social issues than religious issues.
Again this is not new, and I refer people to an excellent Yes Minister episode on this issue."
I saw that episode, its very funny.
But that is satire.
However could this response from Poneke be satire?
This is not at all far fetched. The gay minister of the church whose kindergarten my children attended is an atheist. His Christmas sevices for the kindy kids were a marvel to behold, containing not a mention at all of Jesus, Mary, Joseph or anyone like that, but many calls to arms against the oppressors of the poor and the downtrodden. He certainly bewildered a lot of three and four year olds, who until then believed Christmas was about Santa and presents. :-)
I'll let you be the judge of that.
I didn't take it as satire, just more nasty Christian-baiting from DPF. Not sure what he's trying to achieve there.
Posted by: ropata | March 31, 2008 at 02:59 PM
This would be satirical.
Nothing unusual about a gay minister of course.
Atheist is going too far. But many ministers I think could be classified as agnostic - given their repeated use of words like "searching", "mystery", etc.
Not mentioning Mary and Joseph to kindy kids is OK, because they don't need to hear about it at that age.
But the clincher for me is right at the end. Where kids actually believe that Xmas is about Santa Claus and Xmas presents. Well that IS what it is about to most NZers and certainly any retailer!
How could anyone, minister or otherwise, overlook such an obvious fact?
Ha Ha Ha!!!a
Posted by: peter | March 31, 2008 at 05:18 PM
"Ha Ha Ha!!!a"
Clearly Peter is INSANE !!!!
Posted by: dad4justice | March 31, 2008 at 06:00 PM
More I read Kiwiblog, the more I think DPF is a real loop. He's branched out this year from what he was good at into general opinion masked as fact by his reputation. There's only so long you can get away with that.
Interesting assesment of DPF in the BSA thread by a poster called "Hoolahan". I think it about sums it up.
Posted by: Rick | April 01, 2008 at 07:39 AM
Thanks Rick. The thread in question is discussing the BSA decision to allow the R18 show Californication on free to air TV. Hoolian made a good point.
Posted by: ropata | April 01, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Seems there is something DPF believes in: the sanctity of his own site polls.
He'll watch you fuck a nun, but mess with his poll and that's just plain immoral.
Posted by: Rick | April 01, 2008 at 04:03 PM
Obviously Rick you aren't bright enough to un derstand the issue of individual rights and true objective morality derived from those.
Posted by: James | April 01, 2008 at 04:46 PM
There is always a tension between Personal freedom vs. Community wellbeing; individualist hedonism is often very shrill and demanding and cloaks its selfish aims in the language of "rights", all the while ignoring responsibility and the wider social impact of their pursuits.
Posted by: ropata | April 01, 2008 at 04:53 PM
While the religious businesses are never "shrill and demanding" as they suck the life blood from the community, sit on huge investments and pay no tax.
Do the religious businesses ever care about their social impact, the lives ruined by lies and deceit?
Of course they don't, the Kings just sit in their counting houses ...
Posted by: fugley | April 01, 2008 at 06:50 PM
Well Fugley, as Rodney Stark details, it was a tradition among Christian businesses centuries ago for their business to contain a poor box where they would place personal donations for the care of the poor.
Also, when I see you do even a fraction of the work for the disadvantaged that the Church and it's members (including those business people) do then you'll be permitted to comment. Otherwise get lost.
Posted by: Jason | April 01, 2008 at 10:33 PM
Jason, I guess I follow the line of Jesus when he said "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth."
So Jason, **** *** **** up.
Posted by: fugley | April 01, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Praise the Lord! fugley follows Jesus! ;-)
Posted by: ropata | April 02, 2008 at 10:13 AM
"...individual rights and true objective morality derived from those."
Obviously, James, you aren't bright enough to understand morality.
Posted by: Rick | April 02, 2008 at 06:31 PM