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« King’s position clarified | Main | The Hausmann email trail »

Comments

Jim

There must be an atheistic instruction manual somewhere with a page that reads:

There is no supernatural, therefore any encounter with god/miracle must be one of the following:
a. An hallucination
b. Mass Hysteria
c. A complete fabrication (lie)
d. Space aliens

And they say that Christians have "blind faith"...

peter

All of the explanations on offer here are myths or fantasy.

If indeed it was Moses who came up with the 10 Commandments, then I say he "wrote" them down himself. Hell - its not rocket science so why do you need an astronaut!!

Ha Ha Ha!!!

fugley

The Ten Commandments have stood the test of time since time immemorial and are a pretty succinct set of rules for building a functional and civil society.

Well, not really.

Let's look at them, one by one.

1. Not a law for Man to live by, it is more about god's paranoia and jealousy. Who are these other gods he fears?

2. Well, ther goes much of our visual arts, doesn't it? What does god expect to be achieved by putting the brakes on Man's artistic bent?

3. Opps, looks like god shows a bit more of his paranoia here.

4. And again. It seems like its all about god.

5. Hmm, OK as far as it goes, but nothing about parents honouring children. Or what to do about honour and an abusive parent.

6. OK, I can concur with this one, but I often find christains obfuscate about it.

7. Why the obsession with who shags whom? God made just about every species polyamorous, why shouldn't Man enjoy the sport as well?

8. Yep, gota agree with that one, keep your hands to yourself.

9. Sure, OK about neighbours. I guess this is the one that gives GW his out against saddam - they weren't neighbours, so lies were OK. Such a small rtown god, really, obviously he never forsaw the global village.

10. Well, there goes capitalism, after all, its predicated on seeing others have good things and striving to achieve the same for yourself.

What about commandments to do with child abuse (did the priests think it was OK as there was no commandment?), drug abuse, road rage, women's rights, I could go on and on.

If everybody obeyed them, which they don't of course, we wouldn't need any other laws would we? Nor the infrastructure to enforce them.

Well, even god thought we needed more laws, the bible is litered with them. But most people don't seem to follow those either.

For me, I love bacon and prawns, meat with cheese, all the stuff god says i shouldn't eat.

The reason man created laws was because these ones are, as is god, inadequate to the task.

Jim

Fugley, Peter.

Seems to me the reason why people don't obey the ten commandments is because they think like you two. Thank you for making Andre's point so eloquently.

fugley

So Jim, no comment on why the commandments miss out so much? on why god is so paranoid he uses 4 of them on himself? Why he doesn't like the creative in Man?

peter

OK

Is there ANYONE who would believe that somehow a god engraved these tablets of stone? Were the tablets blanks already on earth, or did the god lug them into Earth in the first place?

As for the commandments themselves - seem quite enlightened for those days.

I had to chuckle at this:

"10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it."

I don't know how ANYONE, and especially Ian, can screw the scrum when it comes to interpreting what creation in 7 days means in the Bible.

These two verses appear consecutively in Exodus - linking the concept of resting on the Sabbath (7 day week) with the amount of time this god took to create Earth, or the Universe, or whatever it was that the Bible meant!

Ha Ha Ha!!!

ropata

fugley
Yahweh is the Creator and his commandments are given for our benefit, not to enslave us but to stop us from basically destroying ourselves and our neighbours. And an omniscient God would not offer "suggestions" when he KNOWS that his commands are right.

ropata

peter,
A skim-read of the Bible will allow you to form may half-baked ideas. However if you look into the various schools of Bible interpretation, a good case can be made for figurative language in Genesis. Also it's not a 21st century science textbook. You're trying to impose our peculiar western cultural matrix on a document that is as old as civilization itself.

fugley

OK ropata, so why does jehovah use 40% of teh commandments on himself?

Why doesn't he have anytghing to say about child abuse?

And why do xtians get so hung up on the 10 commandments yet find ways to wriggle out from all the other laws imposed by Yahweh?

dad4justice

God requires specific behaviours from his people.God commands us first to fix his words firmly in our hearts and minds,signifying a zeal to fulfill God's word.

Some people can't be bothered so they spend their time enforcing satanic agendas for the dark prince of the earth.

peter

Ropata

Do you still labour 6 solid days per week, as instructed by Moses?

Personally I think 5 or so is quite adequate.

Also:

Where do Roman Catholics (half the world's Christians) fit with these commandments?:

"You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me"

I seem to see a lot of statues of Mary floating about. Quite a few altars that people address as if there was a god there. Idolatory if every I saw it!!

david w

Peter,

I believe the Catholic position, which I'll leave you to decide the merit or otherwise of, is that you can honour God by contemplating symbols of His glory as long as you don't worship those symbols. Or something. Mary gets her own special level of adoration called hyperdulia. Or something. Sometimes the gap between Theology and sophistry seems kind of thin to me...

As for the 12 commandments, the ones that aren't explicitly religious are just sensible ways to run a society - i don't think the principles underlying them are unique to Abraham's religion

mickmac

Fugley
You say -
Why doesn't he have anything to say about child abuse?

If all people actually lived the 10 commandments there wouldn't be child abuse, nor theft nor murder etc etc.

Use your brain mate, please.
It's unbecoming that an intelligent person like you doesn't apply your mind but just denigrates without forethought.

mickmac

Peter
you have got a point with the Catholics and their Idols.
An Idol is anything you put before you and God.
If it takes on your focus and off God then it's an Idol.

Well Spotted.
Now that Plank in your eye ?
can I help you with that :-)

fugley

mickmac, I can see the explicit commandments re murder and theft, but nothing at all to do with child abuse or rape?

Could it be that what WE call child abuse was common practice in the days the 10 commandments were written? Marriage at 12 or so was the norm back then, I believe.

And no one has bothered to reply to my ? where other god's laws are abused.

andrei

Marriage at 12 or so was the norm back then, I believe.

So was death at thirty.

the lengthening of the period of childhood and youth is one of the benefits of the comforts of modern civilization.

It was a tough world back then, it still is but we are working on it and have come a long way since the time of Moses.

And a lot of the way we view other people and their rights is a direct consequence of the teachings of the Bible.

peter

Micmac - I admire you for conceding this obvious point.

Roman Catholics have idols and graven images just as surely as Buddhists do. And never forget, half the world's Christians are Roman Catholics!

So having identified a plank in the eyes of a billion Christians or so, I am supposed to look in the mirror am I? Do you think all 1 billion will be interested?

reid

"So having identified a plank in the eyes of a billion Christians or so"

Don't make me laugh Peter. Your points are trite misunderstandings.

Based on the principal however of:

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. Pro: 26.5

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe: 3.8

Regarding belief in other Gods, to suggest it's because the Creator is fearful is itself a fearful misunderstanding of His nature. He designed and made the universe and everything in it: space, gravity, electromagnetism, the weak and strong nuclear forces, the planets, black holes, drak matter, zero-point energy, all the animals and plants, all life on this and other planets. And if you do think there is intelligent life elsewhere, why do you imagine they would not also bow to the Creator. That's a very brief summary with many omissions, but do you really imagine such an entity would (a) need people to believe or (b) be afraid of anything. By transposing your extraordinarily limited understanding onto His and anthropomorphising Him, you are simply exposing your vast ignorance of the subject matter peter.

As I said on a previous thred, I suggest both you and fugley take to heart the FACT that unless you first believe, you will never understand. That's why it's called faith. Duh.

It's not irritating but simply saddening to see you and fugley continue to expose your ignorance and foolishness. Perhaps if you were to do some serious research and make some decent points, you might get some interesting debate. But as I said previously, I doubt you will.

To others interested in the thread, you might want to consider the background of that Rabbi. There are many examples of anti-Christian attitudes amongst some Jews. Perhaps this is just another poke in the eye from one of them.

david w

For I, the Lord your God am a jealous God.

(In the old testament, then I kind of mellow out, basically stop the smiting and the leading armies on murderous rampages and, actually, anything at all interventionist and let everyone get on with doing whatever they want to...)

peter

Sorry Reid but this would convince noone:

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe: 3.8"

The consecutive verses I quoted above were written for humans to read, not some god!

If you argue that the "day" in the creation story is 1000 years, surely that means we should all be working for 6000 of our years, before resting for the next 6,000 years.

This does not survive the Ockham razor test, does it.

Ropata says:

"You're trying to impose our peculiar western cultural matrix on a document that is as old as civilization itself."

No, that is what fundamentalist Christians do. I am trying to put this in the perspective of people in Biblical times, who lived a life of greater danger and hazard than us. They tried to find ways to offset these risks by defining gods they could pay homage to.

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