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« Election 2008 - Zimbabwe | Main | French Secularists cannot tolerate Sarkozy's faith »

Comments

mickmac

Sorry Andrei
it'll take a lot more than a headmaster doing what's needed.
He's one man and one school.

We need to kick out the whole feminazi, liberal liarlabour supporting, lefty trefty, Indiginous people worshipping, dawkins loving, mob from both MOE and ERO.

Otherwise we'll have them sabotaging any wholesale efforts to turn this country around.

Thats an issue for another post i'm sure.

How can we move forward as a nation with that lot impregnating every ministry.

has anyone told you how many they've squirralled into environment in the last 3 yrs?

peter

Balderdash!

All boys schools, especially Boarding Schools, are unnatural environments. Brutalisation and bullying are common, with life-long repercussions.

Schools need to be more like community colleges or universities. These young people (and especially with schemes like the govt's school plus) need to become accustomed to taking more personal responsiblity for outcomes - not whipped into line by some inflexible hierarchy of teachers and bigger boys.

Safety is a legitimate concern for schools. Schools can provide a wide range of extra-mural activities, and with correct safety equipment and controls. The last thing we need is kids disappearing for weeks at a time because of extreme horseplay.

Current examples of what you advocate Andrei and Micmac would presumably include Takapuna Grammar, Wesley College and Hutt Valley High School.

Again an example of where the world moves on but you are in quicksand.

ropata

peter
Men are not produced by surrounding boys in cotton wool. You share the typical androgynous feminist liberal delusions about human nature. It is great that girls are doing so well in schools nowadays, but it's pretty clear that boys are tuning out of the touchy-feely no-competition NCEA paradigm. After suffering through the liberal indoctrination of T.Col, teachers are confronted with a horde of unruly adolescents crying out for a firm hand. But no, male teachers are emasculated by the system, and so any boy with an ounce of testosterone learns that scholarship is for pansies.

peter

Ropata

This is nothing but Extreme Right Wing Christian propaganda.

Who says that our student population is a "horde of adolescents crying out for a firm hand"? On the contrary, modern students typically want to take control of their lives, and not to be bound by a heap of petty regulations. They want a smart education not a dumb education.

And so it is with the modern curriculum. You cater for the individual - whether gifted, mainstream or special needs.

For those who go for boxing, judo, rugby league and other contact activities, there is a wealth of sports clubs just dying to occupy their leisure time.

I have looked at NCEA maths and found Level 1 of that remarkably similar to the old. Ropata you do not have a clue.

An over-emphasis on the macho leads to the sort of thing we are hearing about at Wesley College - dry humping males males I believe it was called in the Herald!

Ropata - for nostalgia, borrow a copy of Tom Brown's School Days and wallow in the wonderful nostalgia.

As usual, this criticism is directed at the Labour led government (especially the sexist bits), but in reality, a change of government will see NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN DIRECTION!

Naivety and ignorance rules.

ropata

peter, you're slipping, you forgot to toss in "fundamentalist" a few times. What "petty regulations" annoy you so much peter? Talking in class? Swearing at the teacher? Smoking? Using a cellphone? Dealing drugs? Assaulting peers? Assaulting teachers?

I guess in your world a bruised self-esteem is a catastrophe and words such as 'discipline', 'obedience', 'homework' are oppressive patriarchal concepts, remedied by hours of counselling.

Who wants a 'smart' education if it's of no practical benefit?

I was talking to a teacher last summer who was totally devastated by false allegations of impropriety made by two silly teenage girls. His name was dragged through the mud and his 30 years of service to thousands of young people was of no consequence as the claims of these little drama queens galloped out of all proportion.

Authority is undermined, personal indulgence is everything.

ropata

See page 239 of The Divinity Code.

belt

I have two sons Peter. Please state the gender and ages of your kids to put your ideas in context? Can you?

ropata

I think I get the gist of peter's comment: boys are evil and must be subjugated.

peter

Oppressive regimes simply make the students hate school. Your problems are driven underground.

I am asked what petty regulations concern me:

"Talking in class?" - there should be interaction

"Swearing at the teacher?" - not acceptable

"Smoking?" - against the law in schools

"Using a cellphone?" - not a problem generally

"Dealing drugs?" - against the law

"Assaulting peers?" - again against the law but encouraged (directly or indirectly) in macho environments

"Assaulting teachers?" - Again unlawful.

Really Ropata, if you think these are petty issues in society I am VERY surprised.

By petty, I obviously mean applying rules to senior students that would not apply at a university on in the workforce. There is no need to treat a 16 year old like a 6 year old. There is no need to have armies of prefects going around harrassing juniors either.

As for homework - serious students do homework.

reid

peter, read this article. I doubt you'll understand it, you'll probably say that you find it offensive, trained feminist poodle that you are. But try to argue that what it outlines is not happening in our schools. Go on.


"...the proponents of these misguided and harmful ideas have become social engineers who are determined to reorder the way children think and to browbeat boys for being who God made them to be. That agenda is spelled out in a single sentence within the AAUW report that reads, "School curricula should deal directly with issues of power, gender politics and violence against women."11 What this means is that boys are perceived by liberals as dysfunctional little troublemakers who grow up to be abusive and selfish men. They need to be "fixed" while they are young by reordering the way they think. And government schools are the instruments designated to straighten them out."

the star from afar

Well Peter you seem so ignorent about life more often than not , realisticly you need get out of your unrealistic imagination and view life,,your too jutless tobe honest to your self and anyone else to give any athourity to your ranting when asked.. lve done youth work for 30 odd years and sports coaching, teacher aiding from a-- z easy n=and tough situations and totally agree with the posting as usual you dont see the point its now generally all boys schools that are trying to treat boys as boys , though l do agree all boys schools aren't the ideal at all but co eds are becomming very screwed up places,, anyway the ave 16 doesnt seem to have much more maturity than a 6 yr these days.,,.

peter

To "the star from afar"

Good to hear about your youth work and sports coaching, not to mention your teacher aiding.

I must admit I buck the trend when I say there is no need to "treat boys as boys" in education. Rather, treat individuals as individuals. I know some really smart teenage boys who thrive in co-ed and single sex schools. Likewise I know girls that are as thick as two short planks.

The article you quote spouts nothing different from the propaganda I have read in this forum. And look what is says in the Q & A about Dobson himself:

"Question

Does Dr. Dobson answer theological questions?

Answer

Dr. Dobson is often asked to respond in detail to biblical or theological inquiries, however, he has had no formal training as a pastor or theologian and freely acknowledges his limitations in these areas.

Over the years, Dr. Dobson has made a deliberate decision to direct the attention of our ministry away from in-depth biblical interpretation and theology, choosing instead to concentrate our efforts on our primary
purpose — introducing individuals to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and thereby strengthening the family."

Yes we have the equivalent in NZ as well - we know who they are.

And why are Christian fundamentalists so terrified of feminism? I can recall feminism in the early 70s at a time when "suburban neurosis" was a huge problem for society to cope with. Feminism to me has been a correction to the unnecessarily masculine domination = quite unnecessary it was.

I don't want to go back to the primitive world of the 1950s. It was largely illusion anyway - we all know that women have called the shots in heterosexual relationships anyway!! Ha Ha Ha !!!

Scream "Stop the World I want to get off" all you like. But much more fun to completely jump aboard and become a real agent of change and progress.

peter

Ropata

I have re-read pg 239 of "The Divinity Code". Might as well have been the first time, so little did it register first time.

Alarmist nonsense. That is not how things work at all. But it suits purposes of the writer.

mickmac

Peter
As far as I know hutt valley high school is a co-ed school.

shit happens everywhere at all times.

also boys are different from girls.

I stand by my post, the first in this thread as accurate as to NZ and overseas experience.

I wish that you were right truly, but you're not.
entitled to your opinion certainly.
but not to be listened to if you're talking crap.

peter

Mickmac

I have re-read your first post with this emotional and childish words like "feminazi" and "liarbour".

It sounds like you resent power sharing among male and female in our society.

I think we are seeing that the feminine perspective brings strengths to leadership. Society is not all male. I've always worked alongside women, I have worked for women, women have worked for me. A mature society will have no problems with this.

What you and others are saying is that it is not legitimate for left-of-centre governments to lead as it sees fit, and I think that is a harmful view of democracy. Thankfully you will not ever get away with it.

I see that "St Pauls" on the Norths Shore of Auckland is now said to have a "fight club".

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10501762

Whether this activity, in a Roman Catholic Boys School, is staged or real ..

it does show attitude which you "macho" Christians would applaud?

ropata

Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.
- - Theodore Dalrymple

george

I live in the country close to a community with a small primary school. The sort with manuka goal posts on the playing field and a basketball hoop on the concrete. The other day I was introduced to a local shepherd-come-carpenter's young sons. The type of kiwi kid with a number 2 haircut, camo pants, a rugby jersey and a football.
"Gday boys, whose your team?
-The Highlanders.
-No - which team do you play for; the school?
-Nah we're not allowed to play rugby there, it's a contact sport"

Their father was shaking his head and muttering about the school's bullshit rules and all the global warming rubbish that covers the classroom walls.

The irony is these kids live in two worlds. The real one where hard work is rewarded, mutton is slaughtered for the house, rabbits and bad dogs are destroyed, weather is just weather-good bad or atrocious- and where even the dogs have a hierarchy. The other world is run by sorry hens pushing the party line that boys should be treated like girls, the world is in mortal danger because its snowing in winter or the summer is hot, and there are no winners or losers in life. The teachers should be sacked along with the third rate thinkers that set the agenda from Wellington. They waste our tax, our time, our patience and the potential of the kids.
The sad thing is the feminisers are likely to unsettle the girls the most. What woman wants to marry a pathetic, neurotic male version of herself?

The good outlook is that nature will prevail eventually over an ideology that is shouting against the storm.

In the interim a lot less tolerance for the idiocy foisted on kids by the education 'liberals' is called for.

Sack the lot of them and start again.

peter

"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.
- - Theodore Dalrymple"

Theodore is an ass. Exactly the same thing could be said about Fascism - it is just that Extreme Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists can see Fascism as simply correct - when it is really "politically correct" for those ideologically attracted to fascist principles - or attracted out of fear I guess!

GEORGE:

I know of no greater irony than when you say:

"What woman wants to marry a pathetic, neurotic male version of herself?"

Mental illnesses are far more likely to come from a climate of fear than a climate of reinforcement. I mean who really goes around looking for all your aggro George.

The trouble is that many Extreme Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists are either lazy or unrealistic. Having failed to instil in their children any buy-in to the archaic world view - they want the school teachers to do their job for them!!!

Shame on you!!!!

ropata

Is this your song peter?

Well Im not dumb but I cant understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a man
Oh my lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola
...

Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
Its a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo lola

peter

Just heard the song for the first time Ropata.

Old news I am afraid - dating back to about 1970.

Yes there were such people as homosexual and transexual 38 years ago and there still are! There is nothing Extreme Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists can do to define them out of existence. Ha Ha Ha!!!

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