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Comments

peter

Ropata says:

"Money, Sex, & Power are the three big temptations of church leadership. The early monks battled these with vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Protestants today are more likely to use the tools of simplicity, fidelity, and servanthood. (1 John 2:16)"

Did you deliberately leave the Roman Catholic Church out of this Ropata?

Judging by what we hear out of America, it may be just as well that you did.

Certainly money, sex .. and I suppose the power to obtain these things have been shown to be prevalent where these archdiocesan bankruptcies and parish closures have ensued.

ropata

I should have said "Money, Sex, & Power are the three big temptations for all humanity", not just church leadership.

S

seems to be that there is a lot of the old "no true Scotsman" argument being waged that whenever someone who claims to be Christian does something that you disagree with you instantly dismiss it along the lines of "oh well, he wasn't a real Christian". It seems that daddy j thinks he knows quite a bit about Hitler, and I assume the NSDAP so maybe than throwing little tantrums you would like to go head to head with someone who has studied the third Reich. Perhaps we shouldn't limit ourselves to Nazism but include also the regional flavours of fascism as well such as those in Rumania, Austria and the Balkans...

S

peter

Good point well made "S". I have asked before - of the 2 billion (?) or so nominal Christians in the world, how many do these fundamentalists estimate to be real Christians.

And Ropata now says:

'I should have said "Money, Sex, & Power are the three big temptations for all humanity", not just church leadership.'

The point is that church leadership or church participation is supposed to make a difference but it doesn't make a positive difference.

In fact church leadership or participation has so often been a cause of polarisation - the assumption that I am correct or I am superior carries the implication that you are wrong and you are inferior. The seeds of conflict are self-evident. And in cases like Kosovo and Balkans generally it is religion not ethnicity that is driving it.

s

I think peter, using the no true Scotsman argument that the only person who could truly be considered Christian was Christ ( or the myth of him) himself...
From what I have seen on here anyway it seems to be a fairly accurate statement giving the willingness to disown members of the flock.

S

AcidComments

"I think peter, using the no true Scotsman argument that the only person who could truly be considered Christian was Christ ( or the myth of him) himself...
From what I have seen on here anyway it seems to be a fairly accurate statement giving the willingness to disown members of the flock. "

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

s

I do love those universal get out of jail free cards that can be used to try and avoid sticky situations. So, tell me acid, does that only apply to good apples gone bad or does it also apply to Christians who do bad things but then try to fix their mistake?

S

peter

And speaking of Hitchens, I see this in the overseas press:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/04/us/04evolution.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

I see a young earth creationist is quoted here - there are still a few around.

Acid thank you for quoting Matt 7:21-23.

It illustrates the point I was making.

Andrew McIntosh

Hi all,

I see that Christian apologist Dr William Lane Craig is going to be in New Zealand for a fortnight.

On Monday 16 June
Auckland, “A Critical Response to Richard Dawkins“, Lecture at LR1, Bible College on New Zealand, 80 Central Park Drive, Henderson (7pm).

While a full list of events can be found at
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=RF_calendar

The Victoria University Philosophy Programme will also be hosting a three-day workshop (11-13 June 2008) entitled "Molinism: The Contemporary Debate". Where William is also a confirmed speaker.

http://www.victoria.ac.nz/phil/events/index.aspx

Mel Steffir

In the Spring of 2006 God sent a message. It is about the meaning of First is Last and Last is First. The meaning is this:
In the morning I go to Heaven. In the afternoon I live my life. In the evening I die, death.

What does this mean? It means that Birth is Last and Last is Birth. God also gives an example so that you can understand this better. Example: Mike Douglas died on his birthday. (Note: Mike Douglas and Michael Douglas are too different people)

Mel Steffir

In 2007 God said this: "We each die in succession, then we are born on the same day".

He also gives proof that the message is from him. The proof is in the story of 3 famous people, Mike Douglas, Merv Griffin and Nancy Reagan. Mike Douglas dies on his birthday. Merv Griffin dies the day after Mike. Merv and Nancy are born on the same day.

Some one told me that the Bible is complete. God has said everything he has to say. All I can say is that they are wrong, and they've been deceived by the Romans. God obviously had more to say. There's more too.

Don't be fooled by bad fathers

dad4justice, that your comments consist of no more than impotent ad hominem insults confirms the fallacy of your worldview. What Ryan said made perfect sense. Furthermore, the following is the worst argument ever:

"Stop talking bloody rubbish Danyl. What a silly person you are."

Gosh! I have no argument, so I will just have to call the other party names. However, my religion forbids me to swear! Oh, myself does fail doublefold!

Suck it up, do the research and present a real argument (unlikely)--otherwise you'll be left behind intellectually along with all who believe your fairytales.

Graham Epp

The non-existence of god(s), while correct, isn't enough. So what if we've reasoned that god(s) don't exist? Any kid can do that. The real test is to create a totally natural, magic-free religion that allows eternal life and purpose. Now that would be something. I've succeeded.

RetroFoam insulation Toledo

Observe that in all his quotations he doesn't harm God OR God, indicating he was a believer, abet an unorthodox one.

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