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Comments

Meds

Monkey's are just people in waiting... if you subscribe to that bs evolution religon that is. lol.

Shane Ponting

I think that this really shows how fanatical evolutionists are in their view of life. Next thing Aunty Helen will be modifying Civil Unions to incorporate Apes as well because we all know how much she loves the UN!

James

Ahhh make that some evolutionists Shane. Compared to the fundie nutters wanting invisible ghosts to take all the credit for us being here well...we are out numbered thousands to one! ;-)

Anyone care to answer the superb arguments against God and faith made here...?

http://nogodzone.blogspot.com/

ian

James...the arguments on nogodzone are actually fairly wishy-washy.

There are not enough hours in the day to refute every atheist's personal blog on the web...but tackling the post on the purposelessness of prayer will do.

SNIP:
"God allegedly knows everything before it happens. Perfect knowledge, which is what one would need attribute to a perfect being, means knowledge of everything that was past, everything that is current, and everything that is yet to come. So there is absolutely nothing one can tell this god that he doesn’t already know. It is communication without purpose except perhaps to make the believer feel good."

The author takes the view that prayer is a waste of time, because God already knows what you want. Christ said this too, that your Father knows your needs. But he also urged people to pray, and here's why:

The act of praying establishes a line of communication with God. Those who genuinely pray find their prayers are usually answered, far more often than not.

This isn't because God necessarily changed his mind. He already knew you would ask the prayer, so he could have manipulated future events to give you the outcome you sought.

More to the point however, it builds faith. Those who pray, and learn to truly pray to Christ, find that step of faith is rewarded over and over, which in turn generates fresh prayer and worship.

It is a little bit like teaching kids good manners. Once they get the hang of please and thank you, they realise they get what they want more often.

Prayer is not for God's sake but for our sake. It teaches us how to ask from the heart, and it strengthens faith when those prayers are answered.

It is not about making us feel good, it is about helping us re-establish contact with the deity.

James

"The act of praying establishes a line of communication with God. Those who genuinely pray find their prayers are usually answered, far more often than not."

Tell that to the passengers on 911 or the Jews heading into the gas chambers or the woman being gang raped or...

But Ian...God is online with us 24/7 no...? Hes got the ultimate broadband connection going on...mmmm!

ian

James...perhaps you have an explanation for the following that escaped the medics at Starship:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:J_FdEw1ZL0cJ:www.news24seven.tv/pdf%27s/mar56to65.pdf+%22josephine+martin%22+christian+&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3

James

So why did God give this child this illness in the first place than Ian...? Nothing happens that is not pre-ordained by the Lord so why inflict a child this way...? Maybe God is a sicko who gets off on torturing people and making them beg for relife...and thats a God of "love" and "hope"...? Did you consider that just maybe the doctors got it wrong...? After all they have been known to do that you know...

ian

James has contacted the godless blog http://nogodzone.blogspot.com/2006/04/one-christians-response-to-our-prayer.html

Unfortunately, one cannot comment on that site unless one sets up an entire blog with Blogger.

So for the sake of furthering discussion, I post my response to that site's latest posting below:

Boy, a short post really set you off, huh?

I think you miss my point, possibly deliberately.

The analogy of teaching kids manners is a good one. No parent is going to let their child thirst, but imagine the world we would have if learning to be gracious was tossed aside.

God knows what the future holds for every individual, so he knows that declining a prayer request or answering it will have an impact. But he alone knows what that impact will truly be. You and I, for example, cannot see far into the future beyond our critical thinking skills.

You blame God for thirst or famine or all manner of evils. In fact you rage against him, and say that if it was up to you you'd answer all those prayer requests with a yes.

The planet would have died a horrible death a long time ago if everyone's personal prayers were all answered. Overpopulation would be one aspect, probably.

So God has to balance things. Heaven is the place of perfection. Earth is fallen, riddled with disease and death. That is the biblical message, so raging about the existence of death, disease and misery does not disprove the Bible, per se.

But I tell you this much, if Christianity is true, then who is the winner in the following scenario?: 1,000 Ethiopian Christians die each day from famine. 1,000 atheists die each day having lived comfortable lives and reached top positions in academia and government.

I would far rather be a starving Ethiopian Christian, than a godless contented atheist, if Christianity is indeed true.

By the way, I answered your reader on our blogsite http://www.tbr.cc with a story about a documented miracle at New Zealand's Starship Children's Hospital. Everyone is named, it is a matter of public record.

To disprove the existence of God, you must disprove ALL miracles. To prove the existence of God, I must establish only one. The issue of whether God has answered other people's prayers only goes to his agenda, not his existence. To prove his existence requires just one miracle.

So what's your take on the article?

cheers
Ian

ian

James...doctors do "get it wrong". But misdiagnosing a sore ankle or a headache is a little different from the oncology unit having blood full of leukaemia cells for weeks, then after prayer the leukaemia vanishes.

Likewise the rhizopus infection. It was medically and scientifically tested. The test results are still on file. Then it disappeared.

You'll have to do better than that...

Fletch

I agree with what Ian wrote about prayer.

Also, if you look in Genesis 1, you'll see that God gave the Earth to man to rule over -

"Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

God gave the Earth to men to rule over, and he never goes back on his word, and he also never interferes with our free will.

I'm sure there are many events or things that God would like to change but he doesn't.
Our prayers kind of gives God license to do His will - we're giving God permission to 'interfere' if you will.

That is why prayer is so important.

Also, about bad thnigs happening etc - I think a lot of that is down to us humans as well. It's like if you have a fishbowl; you put in oxygen weed or a little oxygen unit, the sand or pebbles, a little house for the fish to swim through, and you feed the fish everyday - in short, you've created a perfect environment for fish to live in (just as God created the earth to be a perfect environment for humans).
If one fish attacks another, then it's not the fault of the environment. You could stop it but that would be violating the fish's 'free will'.

Accordingly I think that a lot of problems on the earth are down to humans - greed causes starvation etc - to create this environment where bad things can happen.

We can change some of these things if we pray.

James

Ian...NGZ has posted in reply to you.You can comment there by setting up a free blogger account. Are you up to the challenge...?

http://nogodzone.blogspot.com/

ian

Hi James...give my regards ti Jim Peron

James

He says hi....That took the Flannagans a while.Going to answer him though?

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