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« A new day to celebrate our identity as a nation? | Main | Is this paranoia? »

Comments

Lucyna

Towaka, I just noticed another of your comments

"As far as I know the Catholic church still teaches that for one to be saved one needs the ''sacraments''of the ''Church'' with this being confirmed at the Vatican 2 Council."

Not quite. First off, God can save anyone He wants to. He is not limited to those who have received the sacraments. But, beyond what is basically winning the Heavenly Lottery, people who have heard the Gospel should receive the sacraments.

For more on the necessity of Baptism and what happens if a person dies without receiving it, see http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm#VI

For most people, given that the sacraments were instituted by Christ on earth as spiritual help from God, and given that most people need spiritual help, the sacraments are necessary. It would be the rare person that could live a sainted life without needed them.

Fletch

As a Catholic I agree with Lucyna and also that the Apostles and their successors , eg, the Priests of today, have the ability to stand in, in the place of Jesus. It is not the priest who is forgiving sins directly, but he is standing in for Jesus.

God knows how humans work; he made us after all, and he knows that it is good for a person to be able to confess their sins to God 'in person'. The Sacraments are such great gifts that we have been given.

It is also good to know that your sins are forgiven. Of course God forgives us our sin when we are genuinely sorry and you can say sorry to God on your knees in your room, or walking around or wherever you do it, but how do you know you are forgiven? Do you just rely on a good feeling?

If you're a Catholic and just come from confession, you 'know' your sins have been forgiven because Jesus' representative (who he gave authority to do so) says your sins are forgiven - it's the greatest feeling in the world, believe-you-me.

"Those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven" - these are Jesus' words. And how will the apostle know what those persons sins are unless they are told by that person? That is confession.

Some say that Jesus performed the first confession with Peter after he rose from. Peter denied three times that he even knew Jesus; accordingly, Jesus asked Peter three times, "do you love me?".

The priest in confession will often give you 'penance' to do as well.

Account Deleted

Towaka
a question for you.

When you are faced with a problem with a spiritual aspect is there someone you turn to for advice?

towaka

Andrei,
In answer to your question,I would ask the advice of other Christians who`s opinion I respect.

Account Deleted

"In answer to your question,I would ask the advice of other Christians who`s opinion I respect"

Which is the equivalent to choosing a confessor.

towaka

Yes Andrei but my Christians confidants would not say they could forgive my sins.What they would do is give moral support and prayer for me.

Remember this false teaching of priests being able to forgive sins is where the dispicable practice of indulgences comes from.What could be more evil than claiming that by the payment of money your sins could be absolved!

ZenTiger

Towaka, there are two separate thoughts in that last sentence.

1. this false teaching of priests being able to forgive sins ...

I haven't seen this disproven yet.

2. What could be more evil than claiming that by the payment of money your sins could be absolved!...

I can probably think of several things more evil, but perhaps that's just me.

And I don't think much of someone who was lying their way through confessional so they can attack the Catholic religion. The irony is we are supposed to believe his article is a fair representation of what happened, just after he establishes that he is capable of great deceipt.

Anyway, just because someone acts corruptly doesn't mean that the practice itself is corrupt.

People sometimes rig results in a democratic election. Very bad. But we don't decide to end democracy. Same deal with the confessional process, surely?

Although perhaps it would be good to resolve the first point before moving to the second point?

Lucyna

Oh boy. Looks like we are going to have to go back to Reformation history at some point...

Account Deleted

Towaka

if you re-read the post you will see "According to Orthodox teaching, the penitent confess to God and is forgiven by God."

As Christians we are all on a life long spiritual journey learning as we go and we need each other to help along the way especially when we stumble.

And the point of my post was not that the reporter lied to Priests but that he lied to God.


towaka

Zen,
In answer to your statement that ''this false teaching of priests being able to forgive sins ...

I haven't seen this disproven yet''.

If you understood Bible hermeneutics you would know that you can not make doctrine on one scripture but on ''weight of evidence''.Hence the verse that Lucyna used from John must be weighed against other scriptures that teach an opposite view.Some of these are: Jn 1-29,Rom 6-10,Heb 9-26,9-28,1 Jn 2-2,Rom 11-27,Eph 1-7.

These scriptures are just a few of the many there are in a similar vein.

For the Catholic, salvation does not come through personally receiving Christ as Saviour but is a lengthy process that begins with baptism and thereafter depends upon one`s continued relationship to the Church.Salvation comes through participation in the sacraments,penance,good works,suffering for one`s sins,endless masses and Rosaries said on one`s behalf even after death.

Catholic salvation is by works,the very antithesis of the ''gospel of the grace of God''.

And Lucyna since you mentioned the reformation was not this in a nutshell the beef that Luther had.

Lucyna

Towaka, Jn 1-29 talks about Jesus as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" - the Lamb is Jesus as a sacrifice. That's getting back to that whole thing of blood needing to be shed.

Romans 6-10 supports my position very well, for if you at 6-12 where it says "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies ...", it indicates sin is a choice. Christ paid for sin, but we still sin. I'm not sure why you think this particular passage is an opposite view.

I suppose what you need is a clear explanation of what Christ dying for our sins actually means.

I'll get to Luther later.

towaka

Lucyna,
Romans 6-10 ''For the death that He died,He died to sin once for all;but the life the life He lives,He lives to God''

It is funny how you highlighted this passage when the bit about ''He died to sin once for all'' disproves the Catholic Eucharist.

But could you expand on the post as I failed to get the point you were making.

Peter Warlock

Is it wise to take too much from letters from Paul to various groups? Is it placing too much reliance on one source of God's word. Personally, I always treat these letters with caution, because they had a specific not a general audience in mind. I have a strong preference for looking at the words of Jesus in the Gospels.

Lucyna

Towaka,

you brought up the Rosary.

****

To enter into the garden path, one must first open the gate.

The key is in your hand. It is the cross of Jesus' crucifixion.

With an open heart make the sign of the cross, kiss it,
and the gate will open.

*****

~THE GARDEN PATH~

To enter into the rose garden of prayers, one must first do a prayer walk down the garden path. Since the 15th century it has been a heavenly path rich with color and the sweet aroma of roses. It is a path not walked alone as Mary is with us, sharing the inner mysteries of the life of Christ through Scripture.

****

Would you like to enter and walk with me?

http://www.rosaryworkshop.com/PRAYERscripturalRosary.html#THE%20GARDEN%20GATE

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