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And as the apostle Paul said to the Galatians:

'Oh foolish Galatians who has bewitched you, that you should not obery the truth'?

And WE will reply.
'Oh Lord, we would rather obey any god other than You.
For we have rebellion, stubborness and foolishness in our hearts, which blinds us to the truth.....we are just poor victims, it is really the devil that made us do it'.

'Your free choice, let it be upon your own heads'


Well there is one commandment there that rings a bell in the case of Don Brash, much admired and promoted by the fundamentalist right wing:

"a. You shall live by the personal creed: do as I say, not necessarily as I do."

Which leads on to the next one:

"You shall insist that all children and teens use a condom or other such device during recreational sexual activity."

How would fundamentalist Christians deal with the same issue?

Spirit Of 76

Hopefully, very differently to that of David Benson-Pope !


Lindsay Mitchell has a link to a list of Modern Sins (eg smoking cigarettes) that have replaced the old fashioned ones like Not committing Adultery


I don't think David BP needed to feature. I think that someone, was it Investigate, was expecting imminent resignation late last year. Prophecy about as accurate as any fundamentalist prophecy. It was here or in Investigate - simply can't remember.


Peter, are you seriously suggesting that Benson-Pope should remain as Minister in charge of CYFS, despite having a sexual fetish involving adult-child/teacher-child sexual roleplay?

Are you suggesting that this is NOT a matter of valid concern?

And if not, would it be relevant if George Bush was found in bed with a goat? If so, why?

Spirit Of 76

Benson-Pope is a warped freak.

Don't be surprised if he is, shall we say, "discouraged" from any further involvement in national politics.


ian, ian, ian - once again you find it hard to separate truth from fantasy.

Having a sexula fetish/fantasy is not harmful. Even acting out the fantasy with consenting adults is not harmful.

Being in bed with a goat is not a fantasy, it is a reality. And I feel for any goat in bed with Shrub.


fugley, how do you know it's not harmful?



Sexual role play among consenting adults is of no interest to me whatsoever. It is simply none of my business and none of yours actually.

David BP is likely to be returned to Parliament. He is a competent minister, and a very experienced Otago politician at local and national levels.

He stood last year. I see nothing to preclude him getting good majority once again.,


So you support people in positions of power over children having pedophilic fantasies?

This truly is moral relativism from the Left...


Crap ian.

This has got noting to do with moral relativism, or YOUR fantasies of the Left.

it is about judging people by their actions and the effect of thsoe actions on others.



Like many Christian fundamentalists, you constantly confuse fantasy and reality.

I really don't see how you can legislate against fantasy.

Think about the Peter Plumley Walker murder as a case in point. There was just as much sympathy for the victim as for any other murder - even though he enjoyed sado-masochism and associated fantasies.

Having said that, I have no idea of the range of fantasies entertained by David BP or any other individual.

Whatever turns YOU on Ian.


Peter and Fugley...both of you are being so obtuse you miss the point.

When fantasy is inside someone's head, it remains fantasy and no one else knows about it.

On the other hand, when you put your fantasy into play by acting it out with real people, then your fantasy ceases to be a mere "fantasy" and becomes a manifestation of your personality in the real world.

As such, the rest of us living in the real world then get to comment on whether such a fantasy is appropriate.

As a cabinet minister and school teacher, Benson-Pope CHOSE to take that risk.

Let me illustrate it another way: if what we believe is not relevant to how we do our jobs, then you lot would have no problem with Brian Tamaki becoming Prime Minister.

Ah, you say, but Tamaki will change the laws!

Exactly my point! Who pushed through legislation that mirrored his sexual worldview, whilst promoting himself as a happily married tolerant heterosexual male?

At least with Tamaki we know where he's coming from.

Besides which, pedophilia and its associated fantasies are classed as a psychiatric pathology, so your argument about it not being relevant is rubbish anyway...because I can make the case that a senior cabinet figure with influence over social and child policy is actually mentally ill, in my view.



Anyone would have mental health problems after the degree to which you are prepared to indulge in harrassment!

Bishop Tamaki should be compared to you, not DBP!!

Obviously the govt is not as concerned about him as you are. The boss is not always right but the boss is always the boss.

Before judging performance of others too harshly, it is a good idea to look at one's self. Remove plank from own eye.


There's a sense of Groundhog about this, the end of the day you keep on defending pedophilic fantasies.

Just because the Government isn't concerned doesn't mean we should all turn a blind eye...

What does concern me is that you appear to be suffering boiling frog syndrome, BFS...



So how would you rate DBR fantasies against a leader of a centre right political alleged to have been having extra-marital affair, and not denying it?

One of the two is likely to be breaking a Commandment with a capital C.

I am not sure what the Bible says about fantasies and imagery.

Some interesting links to show Christianity has issues too.

Closing Churches: com/watch? v=_vOeXBbyj8Q

Dangerous people given access to children: com/watch? v=_vOeXBbyj8Q

Church pledges can harm: com/watch? v=_vOeXBbyj8Q

Children hurt by people they trust: com/watch? v=_vOeXBbyj8Q


Actually engaging in sexual acts with multiple others, DBP would be in the gun...

Wasn't it also Christ who said, "He who even looks at another woman with lust in his heart hath committed adultery"? How much worse then?

Besides which, it is a typically moral relativistic position to try and equate two situations in the hope of finding some mythical middle ground of tolerance.

The behaviour of both Brash and DBP is wrong...but DBP's is a lot closer to the Sodom and Gomorrah end of the spectrum.


Whatever Jesus said, I think we can all tell the difference between desiring a woman and having a physical affair!

I think it was Jesus however that said judge not, lest ye be judged!


I'm sorry, I must have been reading about a different David Benson Pope, are you saying yours did not have a physical affair?

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