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Comments

AVG

For heavens sake.. let the matter drop. Any decent bloke would do just the same as Mr Carvell. Maybe if a few more did the thugs might just stop half a second and think. Well.. maybe.!!!!!!!

peter

Hold Fire! everybody.

Even though Ian in the latest issue of Investigate seems to think NZ would be safer if everyone carried firearms
..

Think carefully about the consequences of this decision.

Which type of business is most vulnerable to holdups - the banks. They have introduced all sorts of measures to increase safety of the staff and in my view the Gun Shop should have done exactly the same.

If we are not careful, we find ourselves advising every shopkeeper in NZ to keep a loaded pistol handy.

This would be way over the top for our country. This is not NZ the way we want it.

We would simply escalate the extent to which crims were armed as well.

George

Whats the sound of one knee jerking?

peter

Thank you George. That was exactly my concern in previous email.

WebWrat

"...would be safer if everyone carried firearms"

That's true.

"Think carefully about the consequences of this decision."

Yeah ... maybe there will be less victims.

".... Gun Shop should have done exactly the same."

That's right. And all houses should have bars on the windows, all cars should be of the armoured variety, children should be taught martial arts at the age of five (oops ... hang on ... not allowed to defend ourselves), livestock should be kept in the house, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

"... every shopkeeper in NZ to keep a loaded pistol handy."

Excellent advice.

"This is not NZ the way we want it."

Don't speak for me! As long as this country gets all warm and runny over crims rights and nurtures them, ignores the victims and ignores the wishes of the people, that's exactly what I want.

"We would simply escalate the extent to which crims were armed as well."

They are already armed.


Paulinem

I have a problem with ANYONE who has a loaded gun handy and available in a retail outlet ..

I don't care what is the business ...if he wanted a means of defense in his gun shop why not the spray can of ?? ( sorry cant remember the name of the solution) which will paralysis idiots like the machete guy.

I really have problem with Greg Carvels attitude when he was out of court.

To me he was showing total contempt for our laws on use of guns especially loaded guns ..

Carvel showed no remorse or any sense of responsibility for having a loaded gun in a public area which is illegal and he would ahve known to do this would mean immediately having his license revoked and be charged etc.

What he did was wrong because Guns are designed for one purpose to kill that is why we have strict laws against its use ..and no self defense is NO excuse

There are other more human safer options to defend himself ...

I am glad the cops intend on re looking at charges ..I would hate to see NZ becoming like US where people hold and use guns on any random justification ..its one of the biggest killer of human life in US besides illness

newt

Pauline, that is insane. You would rather the man had been hacked to death with a machete than have the Police exposed as understaffed, under-resourced, and unable to respond in time? You would rather that a young wife became a widow than that a machete-weilding robber got wounded? You would rather that two young children became orphans, than that your misplaced sensibilities concerning firearms were offended? Are you mad? Pepper spray doesn't always work on people when the Police use it. Would you rather some drugged out thug robbed a gunshop than that an innocent man had the right to defend himself, his staff, his customers, and the public who would be endangered by the guns which the man would have stolen had he been allowed to get away with it?

He wasn't showing contempt for the law. He was acting within it. That's why he walked free rather than having to face a trial and jail. Our law ALLOWS people to defend themselves. Would you rather it didn't? Who's side are you on? Come to that, what planet are you on?

Did anyone force the man to walk into a gunshop with a machete and try to rob the place?

Mother of God, words almost fail me.

ZenTiger

A random justification of "he came at me with a machete, did not stop when I yelled at him to" seems like a pretty excellent justification to me, and not actually random.

Paulinem, if people only died from guns that were used in self defence, the world would be a safer place. The reality is, most people on the receiving end of violence weren't asking for it.

peter

Pauline is absolutely right.

Clearly Carvell does not have the shop set up in a way that recognises the type of product he has. He needs premises as well shielded and protected as a bank.

Bryce

Pauline,

I must agree with Newt. You made the comment "There are other more human safer options to defend himself". What? Safer for whom? Violent arseholes that think their own problems are justification for threatening or taking someone else’s life? Surely it is an inalienable human right to defend oneself against an aggressor. Greg Carvell did what any rational law abiding citizen would have done – defend himself.

He worked in a gun shop, and was (presumably) licensed to own a handgun. Had he not had the foresight to make sure that it was available as a tool of self- defence, he would probably be dead now.

Incidentally Pauline, the Mace or pepper spray that you feel that he should have used is ALSO illegal in the hands of private citizens. The criminals don’t give a damn about what the law says, do they?

So, I’m curious, Pauline. Given that your preferred weapon of self-defence is also illegal, what do YOU think Greg Carvell should have done? Given his attacker some guns and ammunition (and hoped for the best)? Fallen to his knees and grovelled for mercy (and hoped for the best)? Asked his attacker to wait for 30 seconds to 5 minutes (I have sat on a 111 call for 5 minutes waiting for it to be answered) while he called the police, and then wait for another 10 to 30 minutes for the police to arrive, before “resuming play” (all the whole hoping for the best)?

Get a grip on reality, woman.

Bryce

Peter,

Ditto my comments to Pauline.

Try to redock with reality, mate (or perhaps try cutting the umbilical cord to Nanny State).

newt

peter, if Carvell's gunshop wasn't set up with security to the standard required by, inspected by, and approved by the Police, it wouldn't be allowed to operate. It is the Police who licence and oversee such operations.

Sorry to let facts get in the way of an ill-informed emotive opinion, but there it is.

James

Greg Carvell did the right thing and for the right reasons....he stopped a scum bag who was initiating force against peaceful people on their own property and who was a threat to their lives and potentially to many others had he escaped with the weapons.That Carvell possessed a loaded gun is irrelevant...he had the moral right to do so by virtue of his having the right to life, as all humans do, and the inseparable corollary of that which is the right to maintain and defend that life.Any law that contradicts that is bad law and should be ignored and repealed.

The loaded gun would not have been an issue if the attacker had not chosen his course of action which lead him to being shot with it.

Greg Carvell preformed a public service and should be honoured for doing so....Peter and Paulienm...shame on you you anti life,big government knows best toadies.

Had you been in the same situation Carvell found himself in you would have done what he did...if you had any sense of life and human self esteem.

Shane Ponting

IMHO gun shop owners should have loaded Automatic hand guns and anyone who approaches with menace gets a good dose of "spray and pray".

hehehe!

Eyes Wide Open

Good on Greg

I too am fed up with the victim always becoming the criminal while what could have and what no doubt would have been the outcome of the crime is simply brushed off as if of no consequence. Like Mr Mactyre last year Mr Cravell was defending his property and his life, and the lives of others. Like Mr Mactyre, he did not kill the perpertrator of the crime but merely wounded him. Lets face it, with our justice system these days, this machete welding thief would probably end up spending less time in prison for his part in what could have been a heinous crime, while Mr Cravell rotted away for daring to protect himself and others by whatever means he could.
I'm afraid that the life of anybody that confronted my family and intended to hurt them, would be the very least of my concerns.

James

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6....

peter

Newt says

".. if Carvell's gunshop wasn't set up with security to the standard required by, inspected by, and approved by the Police, it wouldn't be allowed to operate. It is the Police who licence and oversee such operations."

I was not referring to security of firearms but security of management and staff. Clearly, much more could be done.

James

Well Im pretty sure it has been now Peter....although the now public knowledge that you will be shot if you attack persons working at Sai Guns will have been the best security enhancement it is possible to make. ;-)

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