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60 million missing asian girls? Sounds good to me.

And if they want a few to make up their numbers, there's plenty here we don't really need.


That really was a "fugley" comment, wasn't it fug. I guess it really shouldn't surprise me, though.


This is truly sad. The report not only talked about the infanticide aspect, but that many women are kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery due to the "market" created by a high demand for women.

And then Amnesty can step in and argue that prostitutes definitely need the right to abort because the father will not be there, and besides, children will hamper her income generation potential.

As I said, truly sad.


Sadly, many organisations come to deviate from their original raison detre as they begin to grow old. New Zealand's trade unions began their fall back in the late seventies and early eighties when they started to get involved with Sprinbok tours and other issues which had nothing to do with them. The Green movement has morphed into a new incarnation of the communists of old; now, it would appear, Amnesty is likewise drifting into dementia.

Mind you, the Vatican is hardly a paragon of all virtue, with its tacit support for the Nazis and it's bank financing international arms deals.


Newt, there was no "tacit support" for the Nazis by the Vatican. None.


And now the vatican says micks must no longer give $ to Amnesty, once again showuing how out of touch the church is with its members.

Remeber folks, this is the church that insists, with no biblical evidence at all, that contraception is wrong. thankfully, the educated members of the church are more sensible and defy the ban.


For once, I agree with lucyna. The Vatican was not a tacit supporter of the Nazis; it was an active supporter.


you remind me of an small, insanely yapping terrier, chasing a bus down the road. Your arguments are irrelevant and trivial, merely an annoyance. You look ridiculous.


The reality is that the Vatican was cowering under pressure from the Fascists and later on from the presence of Nazis in Italy as the war progressed. They focussed on one thing - saving the physical basilica, papacy, etc.

They screwed up in Germany. They thought they had protected the right of the Catholic Church to teach in Germany, in exchange for letting the Nazis "get on with the job".

Defeat of the Catholic Church was one of the first victories gained by Hitler. Their political wing vanished. The perceived moral leadership of the pope was shown up to be what it was. A Sham!


Defeat of the Catholic Church was one of the first victories gained by Hitler

Hang on, a while ago weren't you claiming that Hitler _was_ Catholic? If this was a court case you would be a discredited witness by now.


Salient points from this thread:
1. Hitler hated the Church, and murdered untold millions
2. peter/fugley hate the Church, which speaks on behalf of 60 million murdered children

John 3:19

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.


Here are a couple of books Newt, Peter and Fugley need to read:

The Myth of Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII and His Secret War Against Nazi Germany (Hardcover)

A Special Mission: Hitler's Secret Plot to Seize the Vatican and Kidnap Pope Pius the XII (Hardcover)

Oh, and this wouldn't go astray as well. Fugley, you'll get your Biblical evidence for the evils of contraception in here:
Winning the Battle for Sexual Purity: Straight Talk with Men about Love and Life (Audio CD)


Was reading recently that in one province in China alone. There's 5 million more males than females!


lucyna, how aboutt posting the BIBLICAl evidence contraception is wrong? Why do you prefer the word of Man to the word of God?


Fugley, I don't have unlimited time to explain stuff to you that you're going to disregard anyway. The Biblical evidence exists - though not in an easily quotable form.


So, lucyna, what you are saying is that you believe contraception is against god's law, but you can't quote god's law to support this. So if I told you that it was against god's law to post on blogs, you'd also accept that?

Either there is biblical evidence, or there isn't. To my mind, it is simply one more example of religion's desire to control the minutae of everyone's life.


Regarding Pius X11 and Catholic Church in WW2:

"By Bobby (Parsippany, NJ)

There are a few common arguments.

1. Nothing more could be done.

This is absurd. Obviously if more people protested, the scope and depth of killing would have been reduced. The Nazi killing machine was efficient simply because it enjoyed the support of virtually all of the German Christian population. Protests could have lessened what occurred.

2. But what would happen to us

Some suggest Catholics could have been attacked. Perhaps. But ultimately moral acts do not include torturing and killing others to save your own skin.

3. Some Jews liked him

Most holocaust analysts do not defend Pius- See Abandonement of the Jews. Gilbert, The Holocaust

To simply cobble together a few statements of Jewish statesmen eager for Vatican recognition of Israel shows little.

4. He helped save Italian Jews.

Pius did help Italian Jews and should be commended. However, German Catholics tortured, starved, and killed, Jewish men, women, and children. For every Italian Jew saved, there were 10 killed with the aid of German Catholics and other Christians.

5. They wouldn't have listened

This is the most specious arguments- suggesting Catholics, who listened to the Pope on matters of all types, raising children, marriage- would have ignored their Pope had he spoken out against murder.

6. He did say some things.

Unfortunately, when the Pope did speak, he made sure to speak in such vague and obligue terms that it accomplished nothing. Stop murdering Jewish women and children would have accomplished something but was never said."


Fugley, why would I take your word on anything when you don't even know why contraception is evil?

Either there is biblical evidence, or there isn't.

Here you go, someone's done the work for me


Wrong Fugley, Lucyna actually said:

I don't have unlimited time to explain stuff to you that you're going to disregard anyway. The Biblical evidence exists - though not in an easily quotable form.

Can your mind grasp the possibility that the evidence might not be in "quotable form" that you would understand immediately without further explanation? Particularly given your biases.

For example, the theory of special relativity has a variety of consequences that seem to violate common sense. It takes some explaining to help the person wrap their head around this. E=mc2, by itself just doesn't cut it.


When your god is so obtuse, is it any wonder people ignore him?

Burning bushes, images on pieces of toast, why doesn't he just say what he means?

Because, if he did, there would no longer be any need for a priestly class.

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