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Islam and Hindu adherents find the Christian concept of the humiliating death of God to be offensive to any deity of "true power", who would not lower himself to the level of scummy humanity.

That's because they have a pitiful view of humanity, and an inhuman view of God. In fact all other religions are singularly lacking in transcendent goodness, love, or hope for mankind.

It would be nice if these TV shows injected a bit of actual history instead of softening up the viewers for dhimmification. Islam is a Christian heresy isn't it?

TV producers should expose Islam's flawed & shallow ideologies to critical scrutiny with the same enthusiasm applied to Da Vinci codes and unidentifiable tombstones.

As if that's gonna happen!


I think Jesus Himself had the best view of His mother.

Mark 3:31
There came then his brethren and his mother, and standing without, sent
unto him calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him,
Behold thy mother and thy brethern without seek for thee.
33 And he answered the, saying
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said...

Behold my mother and my brethren..

shall do the will of God,
the SAME is my brother and
my sister and my MOTHER.


Islam has an elevated view of Christ, naming him "the prophet Isa". However anyone who actually believes the word of Christ over that of Mohammed qualifies for a beheading.

Oh but never mind about that, look how we honour Mary


I think Christians should be complemented that Islam pay their dues to Jesus Christ.

I see nothing wrong with the Quran views on virgin birth, resurrection, etc.

Actually Jewish people share a similar views in some ways. They recognise that Jesus was quite a good guy, but of course the Old Testament contains plenty of others that could talk to God, make prophecies and pull off the odd miracle.

We are quite mistaken to assume only Jesus matters.


Yes peasant, and in honouring her in front of Jesus....they said...

'And it came to pass, as He spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said unto HIM....

BLESSED is the womb that bear Thee, and the paps which Thou sucked.

BUT He said


Jesus never *denied* that his Mum had quite a unique blessing from God, in this he was saying He's similarly stoked with ALL believers. It must be quite special to share the lineage of Christ Himself and have angels from God tell you that you are his chosen vessel.

Not having seen the documentary, it seems that Islam fails to recognise some key facts in the Nativity story, and so do TV producers, but somehow spin it so to make Islam look more palatable.

Matt L

Here's the thing about Jesus. He claimed to be the son of God.

If he was the son of God then we are obligated to at least examine him and see what He said.

If he was not the son of God then he was a nutter.

You can't admire him for being an earnest philosophy - unless you are willing to acknowledge that first, there is a God - and second he was who he said he was - the son of God.

Why is this offensive to people?

Forget the church, the religious spoutings of me or any other person who talks about God. Everyone should at least read his words and examine what he said - whether it brought life, freedom, love, and justice.

If he is not the son of God then all the more reason to at least read his words for the sake of knowing what you are talking about when you debate a christian.

What's the worst that can happen? That you might actually find he was a pretty perfect sort of guy?


Although peasant when they
tried to *elevate* her
to a special, almost deity position....He chided them, and said NO. rather ALL were in that position.
However she would be called 'blessed amongst women'.

Again, my brother says
she was 'perfect' and without any sin...
otherwise Jesus could not have be born of her.

He says the rosary to her
every night, his entire life.


What you brother says about Christ is more important. Christ is the stumbling-block for Jew, Gentile, and Muslim alike.


Yeah Peasant,

If he could just get that revelation of just who He is...and what He has done on our behalf..

then he could let the rest go...


That's the annoying thing about religion, Jesus doesn't require empty ritual, he wants a reformed heart. Something which is considerably more challenging, but also easier because of divine grace.


Matt L - when you say:

"If he was the son of God then we are obligated to at least examine him and see what He said.

If he was not the son of God then he was a nutter."

.. it is unfair, because it leaves people like me with only one of the two options.

Ha Ha!

But in reality there is the whole middle ground. He was neither the son of God or a nutter. He was a good philosopher that attracted a following. What does it matter that a little bit of hyperbole came into it as well.


The middle ground is sitting on the fence and it gets a bit uncomfortable in the crack of your bum.

But you are a bit of a smarty pants.

Oh and you never fall on the right side.....


Peter, it sounds like the Muslim version of Jesus is the one you'd like to fashion for yourself. However the words of Christ himself do not allow that option. He is Lord of all, or not lord at all.



It is absolutely clear, to one and all, that Jesus is NOT Lord of all, and that he never will be!

And if Christians try to insist on this in unfriendly countries, they will put their own lives and reputations at risk.

Again this fundamentalist prejudice of Peasant leaves us with only one choice - Jesus is Lord of none.

UNLESS .. you accept that Jesus may be Lord of some (whatever that means) and not Lord of others. Common sense must come into it - or reason as the RC church calls it.

Matt L

He was a good philosopher that attracted a following. What does it matter that a little bit of hyperbole came into it as well.

To remove his claim that he was the son of God is to remove almost every claim he made because most of his words were spoken with the foundation being that he was not of this world, that he was the Way to heaven, the Truth of heaven, and the Light to the true nature of God and heaven.

Again - if you examine him and see what he said then you yourself would see that you could only come up with two options - he really was the son of God, or he was a nutter.

At least examine him so you can have some really neat comebacks for those who chose the former - like, sure he saved the woman caught in adultery from being stoned by a bunch of religious nutters - but he also went on to say to her go and sin no more - so he must be a control freak who wants to take away her personal liberty.

Never mind the fact that Mary Magdelene went on to become a loyal disciple - one of the first truely liberated woman...


Jesus is indeed Lord of all, you just don't realise it yet. Making an propositional truth claim does not make one a fundamentalist. Consult a dictionary before flinging around big words you fail to understand.


From 1 Corinthians 15:

14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.



I know what a "propositional truth" is and the technique to me does reek of fundamentalism.

Look at this for instance:

"Most of the energy of the Christian church has been devoted to building propositional walls to keep others out, when it should have been invested in bringing people in. The result is a dying institution.It is broken into so many parts that it long ago ceased to live. It has exchanged a truth that brings life for propositional truth that segments and segregates. It breaks down rather than building up."

Ha Ha!!!


Fundamentalism is something you are quite good at, whenever you are incapable of admitting that your perception of reality is in dire need of an overhaul.

The comment may apply to one peculiar sect of Chrstianity, but I think most of the energy of the Church worldwide has in fact been devoted to things like making the world a better place to live in and sharing the good news.

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