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Well said Andrei,

The part that scared me the most was how 'Destiny' wanted to be included.

As for the left wanting to continually hand out money, aid etc, what a degrading
statement to show a people, regardless of culture, tht they are worthless, useless, and unable to grow into continually handling them

It is the most unkind, unloving path to take, to
make these people feel so inferior, that they need others to continually prop them up, as they are incapable of doing it themselves.
And yet God gve us all talents and abilities to contribute to soceity and our community.
If we come into hardship for whatever reason, then others can assist for a season enabling us to get back up on our feet to continue.

I am appaled this govt.
thinks so little of these people, to degrade them to this extend.

Adolf Fiinkensein

Yes Andrei, I agree. In my lifetime I can't recall any overtly Christian Party enjoying any political success in New Zealand or Australia.

I think most people want their politicians to be of good character and to enact laws which reflect our judeo-christian tradition. However they also want to heep a clear boundary between church and state. This does not mean throwing out the parliamentary prayer which is part of our tradition and is a good reminder of the values it prescribes. Christian political activists would do better for their 'faith' by joining mainstream political parties and seeking to influence policies from within. I can remember a couple of emminent National MPs who were/are Presbyterian ordained elders - Jenny Shipley and Sir Jack Marshall. Chris Auchinvole is the only one in the current caucus of whom I'm aware. There may be others. There may be some in Labour but they don't appear to make themselves too obvious.

I don't share the disdain of some for Destiny's political activities. I carefully read their submission to the 'statement on diversity' or whatever it was and there was nothing in it which sought to impose the church on the state, although mischevous leftie journalists from all sides reisreported it as doing so. Destiny should get their people into the Maori Party and compete for the Maori seats. They should also seek pre-selection for Labour and National. There's not much room for them in today's Labour Party, as Philip Field found when he expressed his distaste for homosexuality. Maybe when Clark and her gang are gone, Labour might become less intolerant.

Steve Taylor - Deputy Leader, Direct Democracy Party of New Zealand

I was one of the Christians betrayed by the "appeasement" principle of United Future New Zealand, a party that gained seats in Parliament on the back of around 80% Christian support intra-party. When considering my future role (if any) in politics, I came to similar conclusions listed above. I then looked for a party that stood for what I believe needed to be achieved in New Zealand. I chose DDP.

Andrew Davies

"Meantime the Church needs to get back to its core mission, salvation of souls by leading people to Christ our Saviour."

agreed. But the role of the church is also to look after "widows and orphans". Unfortunately, by surrendering this role to the state the church has significantly reduced its ability to lead anyone to Christ. We now have the crazy situation of the Anglican church, one of the wealthiest institutions in the country, going on a hikoi demanding that everyone else do its job for it. No wonder the church has become a stench in so many nostrils.

Psycho Milt

Yes, the SST got my hopes up for a minute there - my hopes, of course, tending towards hoping for a conservative Christian party to turn up and not only swipe votes from National, but quite likely disenfranchise the country's most conservative voters by failing to make the threshold. As you can imagine, that'd be a jolly good outcome from my point of view, but the bloody journo scum were just stringing me along again - all the Christians they spoke to were smart enough to see the danger.


Oh yes Psycho.

Many of us know the wolves, even when they don't realised it themselves.

There is much deception around, we all have to watch carefully, unless we too be deceived....people seem to forget satan can appear an an angel of light.
Many think just because the person is a Bishop/leader/preacher,
that we should believe them.


It is certainly dangerous to throw Christian weight behind politicians. There was the case of the Exclusive Brethren backing Don Brash at the last election.

The aftermath continues as can be seen in today's Sunday Star Times.

Michael Mckee

Andrew Davies whilst speaking from a good heart, mixes up sentiment with fact.

The churches role is not looking after the widows and orphans, the NT shows that the deacons were chosen to look after the family not all of society.

This leads to the fallacy that we need to do good works to be able to speak into society or have a voice so that people can come to salvation.

We lead no one to Christ the H/S does.

As for the good works, if we really "loved one another (in the church) so that they know you are my disciples" then some in the world would want to be part of the real relationships within the church.
and would want to know why we were like that.
No good works there!

Good works come after the submission and relationship to Christ and each other, not before.

Andrew Davies

Michael, I think we agree.

Michael Mckee

I don't know that I agree as I don't consider that we have surrendered that "role" to the state.

Rather people acting through the state have usurped that role from the community and families.

Our role is NOT sociological but Spiritual.
As people of Love we naturally will act and live sociologically. That might mean tough love too!

Sadly the so called liberal-justice aspect of humanness has been allowed to become an idol in the heart of many well meaning Christians.

It may be that we have common ground and could grow with each other.
But that would take a few meals, coffees and heart conversation.

I tend to think about the non-believer who reads the posts being misled or pushed further down a thought path.


I must say that the views of JOHN KEY are refreshing and realistic. He recognises the many forms that today's families take.

This may create opportunities for people like family first - who I feel encourage parents to be violent while at the time protesting against violence. This contradiction has been picked up all over the place so will not labour it here.

So - the scene is set for Christian fundamentalists to enter the scene and shoot themselves in the foot.

Destiny Party, Gordon Copeland, Taito Philip Field, etc


I agree with you Michael.

This is what I mean when I say God has set the 'blueprint' even the churches don't follow it, as they have become infiltrated with false doctrine, whereas they are basically preaching 'another' Christ, as Paul said they would.

No wonder so many fall and fall again, so many don't come to maturity in Christ, as they get hand-fed from the pastors, and don't search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so, also as Paul said.

And no wonder the world looks on, and don't see Christ, or hear the true gospel of salvation.

Love has become, I will do and be WHATEVER you need me to be, to help and enable you to stay in the condition you are in, so we are both comfortable....
It makes the 'giver' feel
good in their conscience, and it makes the receiver
enabled to keep taking the


Obviously Peter, I will never agree with you on this....
Smacking a child on the hand is violence????

So you would say a bill needs to be passed to eliminate sex, as women are raped!!!

Afterall, according to you
sex begats rape


I completely agree with the sentiment of this post. Many christian voters feel betrayed by United Future and Peter Dunne's propping up the Labour Party is a slap in the face to the community that elected UFNZ to restrain the mad socialists. A reasonable proportion of the electorate wants an explicitly "christian" based party.. I think Destiny, FutureNZ, Direct Democracy should all step aside, stop fragmenting the conservative vote, and look at the broader picture. It's essential for our future to get rid of the corrupt ideologues of Labour, and vote for a *moderately* conservative party, ie National.

Matt L


I try to hear what you say when you post but it seems you prefer to try and score imaginary points.

I understand why you dislike it when people make blanket statements that may twist words - but seriously:

...encourage parents to be violent...

You have an interesting interpretation of the word violence - one that won't gel with most parents - whether they are christian or not.

Matt L

The whole concept of a Christian party seems counter-productive.

As the saying goes:

"The problem with voting for politicians is that they are actively seeking power..."

Tom S

I've got no objection to three fundy parties getting 2% of the right wing vote each...

Thats what the threshold is for, to keep the looney tunes out of the Parliament.


I've got no objection to three fundy parties getting 2% of the right wing vote each...

Thats what the threshold is for, to keep the looney tunes out of the Parliament.

Is that so Tom?

It doesn't work very well then does it?

The place is filled with loony tunes.

John Boy

I think the Church problem in NZ stems from the advantageous tax position. I suspect that a fair chunk of the leadership run their shows mindful of not rocking the political boat too much. Nothing much in common with the Jews or early Church there. I don't see Christianity and politics as having much in common and being religious or generally of good character is a personal matter.


Anyone want to come to France with me.???

In France Christian, Jewish and Muslim religious leaders have met to sign
a statement proclaiming the fundamental place of marriage in human society
and their opposition to same-sex unions.

The religious leaders emphasized the many difficulties young families are
already facing, without the added burden of a society that does not value
the institution of marriage. The statement says, among other things, that
the traditional institution of marriage is the basic foundation of society
and that the family, as the "foundational reference of humanity," is an
essential institution that "cannot be subjected to the fluctuations of
currents of thought. It is situated beyond religious differences or
ideological divisions. It is a lie to pretend that it is indifferent for a
child to grow with or without a father and mother."

The French government has also issued a report saying that homosexual
'marriage' and adoption by homosexual couples should not be permitted by
law, a decision based primarily on concerns about the impact such
legislation would have on the welfare of children.


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