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« New Business opportunity created by the Government | Main | There is no such thing as a "safe food" »


John Boy

This will send a mesage that will be ignored by the left who cannot admit a mistake was made and daren't sacrifice Sue B because she'll rat on Helen etc... but seized by the right who can see votes in a change. I love democracy, I wish we had it here.

Danger Mouse

So who puts up the wording, and is the process that the Clerk of the House approves it?

The cause will be wasted if the question is anything like the last one - too much compressed into one question about violent crime.


Liarbour will put it in another dark cupboard and let it gather dust like all the other ones.

Meanwhile infanticide and child abuse will increase!!

What a deplorable government completely out of step in every possible way.


Gosh I am sick of reminding people like you John Boy and Daddy 4 but:

The legislation passed with the support of both Labour AND National MPs!!!

Grow up.


not relevant


Peter David

This type of comment and language is unacceptable.

Rephrase it in an acceptable manner or do not bother to comment



not relevant




What difference does it make which parties supported it, in regard to whether or not you disagree with it?

I don't agree with National's position on it even though I'm a member of that party.

Frankly if anyone blindly gives support to any political party right or wrong, on every policy, then I'd have to say those people either have vested interests or they're complete idiots.


Good post Andrei. What you've highlighted is the difference between macro legislation and micro community work.

The micro approach of community organisation will always be stronger because it deals with individual needs whereas the macro level of government has to make sweeping generalisations that will only benefit a few (if anyone).

With this in mind, all parties should be evaluated on their approach to this. A good government will focus on things of a macro nature whilst strengthening organisations that work where it is deficient, on a micro level.

To cite a glaring instant, a state government can deal with defence and international relations where a micro organisation cannot, whereas a micro organisation can deal with families where a macro government cannot.

Of course, there are shades of grey, but the general rule can be followed.



You are right - get the macro right and the micro will look after itself.

That is why the National Party, the Labour Party, and almost all minor political parties supported the repeal of s59!

Of course the extreme right wing Christian fundamentalists will try to create trouble for Labour and the Greens on this one - my advice is do not waste your time. Move on to new issues.


Your advice is wrong Peter and to be treated with utter contempt !~!!


As you well know, it's not just the scary ERWCF™ conspiracy that has been signing the petition, so stop trying to marginalise and silence the 80+ % of voters who you disagree with. You and your labour overlords have shown contempt for democracy and the people of NZ. The way democracy works is to allow freedom of speech and freedom of belief, but clearly you only want it for yourself. You deny the human rights of your fellow citizens for your 'higher cause'. You are a committed marxist aren't you?

Danger Mouse

Dad4Justice, who voted AGAINST the repeal of s59?


National opposed the repeal of S59 until the last minute, and they didn't whip their MPs either on this important conscience issue. It was only supported to gain concessions from Labour, who had the numbers to steamroller the opposition anyway. I can't believe the arrogance of you leftist political elitists, trying to impose your busybody state control on average Kiwis. Social chaos plays into the hands of big statists like you, because the next step is the totalitarian police state. NZ has had a gutsful of that nanny state crap.

Danger Mouse

Ropata, the fact is only Act voted against it. I wasn't necessarily saying National voted for it for the right reasons.


I should point out that S59 was going to be repealed anyway, because Helen Clark had the numbers. National traded their votes (thereby removing a little heat from Labour) for the clause to help the police act in a sensible fashion.

Unfortunately, it didn't work. The current prosecution of Jimmy Mason for trivial reasons only demonstrates the abject failure of this law. Clearly the police are not capable of subtlety in their interpretation of the law - as evidenced by their obsession with non-existent terrorists!


Unfortunately Jim the police are as rotten as the Labour government is .



we can agree on one thing: that is National's support for it made it an overwhelming majority in the house.

However, outside the house, it is fair to say that an overwhelming majority do not support the Act. Would you like to take a guess on what result the CIR will return - 70%+, 80%+ or 90%+? In any case a majority of the public :) Now the last time I checked democracy is Government in accordance with the people's will.

Peter, you were on my mind again while I was in church today. I have this sense that one day you will meet the love of God as shown in the person of Jesus Christ. I hope that day that you choose to have a relationship with him. This may sound silly now, but God is calling you home. Have a good week :)

Psycho Milt

Peter - if you declare Servant is right, then proceed to promote a directly contradictory position, it makes you look either incapable of understanding what others write, or proud to be in the wrong.


Matthew said:

"However, outside the house, it is fair to say that an overwhelming majority do not support the Act. Would you like to take a guess on what result the CIR will return - 70%+, 80%+ or 90%+? In any case a majority of the public :) Now the last time I checked democracy is Government in accordance with the people's will."

And what proportion of the population would vote for populist goodies like 10 percent wage increase across the Board, abolition of GST .. ?

Guys you can't run an organisation or business by referendum or market research - you need decision-making and accountability - popular and unpopular! [Did not think you needed to be taught these fundamentals!]

ALSO as part of Democracy 101 - you can't make pepper pot decisions - you need clear direction and an understanding of global impact!!

We must accept that we elect our Members of Parliament to get informed in detail (through select committee process in particular) and then to make decisions popular or unpopular.

John Key is on the same track as Helen Clark. That is why Sir Roger Douglas has now crawled out of his cave!

Crawl out of the pages of the bible and get into the real world. Enjoy the real world, and in particular our fine country.

The smacking issue is dead.

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