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Comments

peter

Ropata - unfortunately CHRISTIANITY had no answer to the rise of Fascism or the Iron Curtain in Europe either!

In fact the Roman Catholic Church negotiated an agreement with Hitler and co. I read that they were given the right to continue Roman Catholic education of their children PROVIDED they did not criticise the Nazis.

Yes their beloved Roman Catholic private education, indoctrination, meant more to them than anything else or so it seemed.

Meanwhile, Nepal has seen the light:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7424302.stm

That is right. No more monarchy with religious overtones.

ropata

Fascism and the Soviet Empire were founded on atheism. They were wrong, and they are gone. Your point is.. ?

fugley

Wrong ropata, wrong.

neither facism nor the Soviet empire were founded on atheism. Unlike religions, atheism doesn't "found" anything.

Hitler and mussolini were both christians.

Facism and sovietism were founded on the cult of the personaility, a religious concept. Hitler's rallies were no different to those of, say, Billy Graham as far as sirring up emotiion and getting people to turn off rational thought and simply accept the message, no questions asked.

Of course, if you can prove your assertion, I'd be very interested to read the proof.

george

'Hitler and mussolini were both christians'...!!!

Are you sane?

dad4justice

George -fugley is a mental cot case suffering from psychosis and delusions. He is a sick joke devoid of any moral substance.

ZenTiger

They would have had to be "practicing Christians" because they fell so far short of the mark, they sure needed a lot of practice.

On the other hand, they were successful atheists I suppose.

bryce

I am confused, Ropata. Why is poverty a virtue? What do you mean by "poverty" - the obvious understanding of the meaning of the word, or perhaps a communal approach to ownership of goods or property? In either case, I don't see the virtue. A man can choose to be charitable with his property only if he owns it. Likewise, the concept of theft can only exist if a man is able to willfully take something that belongs to another man against the owners will - "Thou shalt nor steal".

To me, willfully falling into a state of poverty would a betrayal of myself, and of those that depend upon me.

I very sincerely do not get it.

Danyl Mclauchlan

Since Hitler talked about God on almost a daily basis its pretty hard to imagine how he could have been any kind of atheist, successful or otherwise. And Mussolini made Roman Catholicism the official state religion of fascist Italy - again, not really what you'd imagine a 'successful atheist' would strive for.

dad4justice

Danyl is obviously fugley’s twin brother who dabbles in fiddle-faddle nonsense, learnt straight from the training manual Black’s book for psychosis. Next thing these deluded fools will be telling us that Stalin was a heavenly man. Didn’t the pathological mass murderer Stalin say;”We have deposed the czars of the earth and we shall now dethrone the Lord of Heaven.” Sometimes I do wonder about what makes these sad individuals tick for them to write such nauseous preposterous insanities ? Cookoo comes to mind.

They would do well to remember when the wicked are in power (for example Helen Klark ) injustice flourishes unbridled.

ZenTiger

not really what you'd imagine a 'successful atheist' would strive for.

and yet for some reasons, atheists are trying to imagine this represents a successful Christian.

The age of reason - obviously long since departed.

Danyl Mclauchlan

and yet for some reasons, atheists are trying to imagine this represents a successful Christian.

I have no idea what a 'successful Christian' is - I believe the question is rather controversial within the Christian faith itself.

But Mussolini DID make the Catholic Church the official state church and Hitler DID try his hardest to rid the world of godless Communist - both of which are things I think many (but obviously not all) Christians would heartily approve of.

Incidentally, I love the way Ropata's description of atheists bears no relation to any actual atheist I've ever met - you do know that Christopher Hitchens is a lifelong democratic socialist and therefore takes a rather dim view towards shopping malls and global capital in general and 'Nietzsche's Ubermensch' in particular?

AcidComments

"Hitler and mussolini were both christians"

Wrong!

They were EX-Christians.

Hitler and his gang. Made statements how the hated Christianity and what it stood for. Rounded up many Pastors and Priests.

Many of the Churches in Germany only caved in only after they submitted to Hitler. Then the Nazis changed all the Christian festivals and Holidays to Pagan/Cult ones.

Hilter had heavy influence from the socalled 'black occult arts and the darks side of oppressive Tibetan Buddhism and rituals.

Same thing in China today. Christian Churches are only allowed if they don't critise the Communist regime. Hundreds of Christian Churches have been bulldozed to the ground in China. That's why many thousands of Chinese Christians meet and worship in secret 'home churches' and face inprisonment!

Danyl Mclauchlan

Hilter had heavy influence from the socalled 'black occult arts and the darks side of oppressive Tibetan Buddhism and rituals.

Was that before or after he tried to steal the Holy Grail off Indiana Jones?

dad4justice

Oh that's right Danyl, make a joke of it, you hateful fool. I detest your constant attack on Christianity. Hitchens is a complete wacko and his credibility is laughable, just ask sonic.

Ask God about your soul lad !!

Samuel Skinner

All facists have been Christians. Facism is a reaction to communism and, as such promotes Christian Nationalism.

Hitler was a Christian- he believed that Jesus was the Son of God. That is ALL that is required to be a Christian.

How the hell is poverty, chastity and obedience virtues? Don't you realize those where things the facists celebrated?

You intend to replace atheism with Christianity in Europe to beat back Islam? You intend to start a new crusade? Tell me- while the insanity is fresh in your mind, how would adding MORE insanity to Europe help?

Atheism hasn't failed Europe- appeasement has.

AcidComments

"All facists have been Christians. Facism is a reaction to communism and, as such promotes Christian Nationalism.

Hitler was a Christian- he believed that Jesus was the Son of God. That is ALL that is required to be a Christian."

Rubbish!

Here's a few of many Anti-Christian quotes from Hitler.

21st October, 1941, midday:

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea."

13th December, 1941, midnight:

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease."

Samuel Skinner

You proved my point acid. Look at the second line. Jesus's work was betrayed by St Paul. So he did believe Jesus was the savior and thus was a Christian.

As for his quotes against Christianity- he was a heretic. Just like Martin Luther, who was a hero of his. The church had been corrupted by the Jews and he had to purify it.

Note that in all his quotes he doesn't attack Jesus OR God, suggesting he was a believer, abet an unorthodox one.

s

Hitler was a great believer in providence and destiny. While not a Christian (though he was raised one which is niether here nor there as most Europeans were) he did place faith in a 'higher power' for want of a better term. Atheists, such as myself don't look to gods, providence, fate or external superstitious sources for explainations of how or why we have arrived at certain points in our lives. I suggest before making statements such as those in you posts ropata you consult the literature first. Maybe spend some more time with the works of kershaw, snyder, fest and shires before trying to score what seems like easy points which are patently inaccurate

S

ZenTiger

There are a range of stupid comments being made by the "blame Christianity" crowd, and they are somewhat at odds with each other, not to mention odds with anything actually relevant.

Firstly, if we accept the simplest definition of Christianity is that Jesus was the son of God, then trying to label Hitler as a Christian being somehow relevant to being a mass murderer is almost the same as declaring he was a vegetarian, and we all know vegetarianism leads to putting animal rights before humans, and pretty soon, all vegetarians are gassing meat eaters to death, even those that eat vegetables.

Oh really?

Let's see you prove he was a vegetarian first of all. And if he was - does that really prove the rest of your thesis?

Take your time before answering.

I have no idea what a 'successful Christian' is - I believe the question is rather controversial within the Christian faith itself.

Well, for some-one with no idea, you are keen to join the debate to make your snide associations with Christianity=Hitler.

That kind of behaviour (or are you trying to prove intellectual superiority in some strange way?)
should be beneath you Danyl.

Psycho Milt

That is why Islam is making such inroads to the spiritual wasteland of atheist Europe.

Islam is making inroads into Europe through immigration and a high birth rate. Quite how this is a result of atheism lacking meaning isn't obvious.

the great Faith ... whose vision is no less than Heaven on Earth.

I'm sorry, but history consistently suggests that people with a "vision of Heaven on Earth" are actually only good for ensuring a generous supply of dead bodies. If there is a god, may it spare us from any more such types.

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