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« Ian Wishart & Gareth Morgan, Close Up TVNZ 7pm | Main | You knew ETS was wrong but couldn't put your finger on it »

Comments

CM

>>>For example it seems almost certain that the writers of some of those e-mails were conspiring to dupe the public. The question is - what is the real data, and what does the real science say?<<<

The only 'certain' thing are the accusations of a conspiracy. The fact that so many scientists and national scientific organisations are actively coming out and saying 'nothing has changed' should suggest to you that THEY don't see anything meaningful in the emails. So you've either got no conspiracy at all, or a MASSIVE one involving thousands and thousands of scientists who have actively put their necks on the line even though they presumably know that the investigations will reveal it. EVEN if the worst allegations were proven correct, it changes almost nothing (other than to the careers of the few involved).

Here is a good summary:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18238-why-theres-no-sign-of-a-climate-conspiracy-in-hacked-emails.html?page=3

CM

>>>However - fix your eyes upon this - The Danish Text:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/09/2765792.htm<<<

Possibly a bit of sensationalism there by Vidal.

"1930 CET: So, if you've seen my news story on the "Danish text" issue you'll see that not everyone is using the "something rotten in the state of Denmark" line that The Guardian followed.

Some agencies such as CAFOD (quoted in the news story) were very damning, but other observers saw less to disagree about.

One long-time observer of this process - from another charity working on poverty and development issues - suggested positions were close enough for a deal to be likely.

Both the Danish text and that from the BASIC bloc (again, see the news story for details) leave brackets where numbers should be for pledges on cutting emissions.

The big issue is the legal form of a new agreement - whether to extend the Kyoto Protocol to cover further pledges from developed nations, or whether to stick everything under a new agreement - and that's been going on since discussions started shortly after the 2007 climate summit in Bali."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/richardblack/

CM

To paraphrase Ian...

"Real science is never decided by bombshell polls."

and

"It doesn't matter if 9,999 TVNZ viewers vote in favour of Ian Wishart and only one doesn't. If Morgan happens to be correct - regardless of whether TVNZ viewers listen to him or laugh at him - he is correct."

http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2009/12/new-studies-throw-major-doubt-on-c02-climate-link.html

Thomas Everth

This spectacle would have been funny if the whole shimassle was not so important.

Anyway, the opinion voiced by good old Howard Kunstler sums it up reasonably well where its heading:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2009/12/climate-oil-war-and-money.html

With reference to the idea that populist polemics now claim to be setting the agenda in a debate about a matter of great importance and scientific nature our friend Fala coined it so well with reference to this and similar blogging sites:

"There is a reason researchers don't do public sparring (on sites like this - my inference), because they may open themselves up to attack by illiterate members of the public who don't understand the particular topic they're attacking since they themselves have a pre-conceived idea."

This says it all also about the idea that we should allow this sort of spectacle to run mugshot over the science and the outcome of the debate for the future of the planet.

When the wiggle worm on the TV screens decides who is up and who is down in matters like this its time to seriously plan for the Mad Max future that surely will follow suit. US gun sales seem to indicate that over there they have resigned themselves to that outcome a while ago....

BammBamm

Strasvetie Tovarish CM!

Dobrya den, gde tvoe electronik pismo? Moshet bit tu egrium s moe??

Watch and learn comrade grasshopper, when the FSB releases more email - and not just the CRU's either.

I wonder where Tsar Vladimir Putin is these days?

Howls of uncontrollable laughter and cackling were heard in certain Kremlin corridors last week.

Severe Sino Sniggering was also heard in Beijing, after all - it was only a few years ago that most of Wellington's emails were siphoned off there also.

Kapow

Ian, I emailed Gareth yesterday about his comment during the interview "as at 2008 the science was in favour of warming" - and mentioned Dr Richard Lindzen's study (released 2009)on the increase in long wave radiation escaping as the surface temperature increases; thus mitigating any greenhouse effect.
He replied (which was nice) - but seemed to fob this off as needing to stand up to peer review.
This seems to be the catch cry of all warmist "there must be peer review"! Otherwise they seem to discount any alternative study. Quite frankly, I think it's a cop out - especially in the wake of Climategate and the so called peer review of Jones et al reviewing their own work.
What are your thoughts on this and what did you find in your research for Air Con?

CM

>>>This seems to be the catch cry of all warmist "there must be peer review"! Otherwise they seem to discount any alternative study.<<<

Doesn't sound like he 'dismissed' it though, rather he wants to wait to see if it stands up to scrutiny. Sounds fair enough. That's what the process is for. Not an unreasonable position to take, particularly if it overturns anything in other research.

>>>Quite frankly, I think it's a cop out - especially in the wake of Climategate and the so called peer review of Jones et al reviewing their own work.<<<

What examples have come from ClimateGate of poor papers passing peer review because one of those in the emails acted in a corrupt and unprofessional manner by letting it 'slide through'?

Thomas Everth

When I watched Ian on Closeup somehow two words seemed to repeatedly bubble up in my mind: One was 'Brian' and the other one was 'Tamaki'. Now why is would be I am still trying to work out.

Perhaps a sublime divine message embedded in the interlace of the TV signal from a parallel universe far far away?

Maybe it has some merit! Since Brian Tamaki's intent to take over NZ was a bit of a fizzer he could team up with Ian here. Then their combined message would offer salvation from the Antichrist as well as the evil dominance of the world by the Ivory Tower of Science all at same time!

BammBamm

Thomas, Thomas, Thomas. Again you show classical primal one dimensional thinking.

You have no idea who runs this country, or which groups are in control.

In fact, if you are not careful, I will label you as having 'concrete thinking' on the MMGW delusion.

Are you on any tri-cyclics by any chance?

Thomas Everth

BammBamm: no, I can assure you my electric car has four wheels.

CM

>>>You have no idea who runs this country, or which groups are in control.<<<

Is it the Jews? Please don't tell me it's the kids from Bro Town??!

John

Climate change is part of the push for a New World Order "They" speak of. Who is "They"? That is something you will have to figure out on your own. Do not censor yourself though, it only benefits "them" if you do. It's easy to see once your eyes are opened.

First thing to do is TURN OFF THE TV, it's their most powerful weapon against you. Stop buying their newspapers, stop feeding the monster that wishes to enslave you. It's not a theory, it's a massive conspiracy thats been going on for a couple thousand years now, and they sneer and laugh at your stupidity. Prove them wrong. Head over to realoathkeepers.org to see where the fight is at.

robk

Thomas

"Perhaps a sublime divine message embedded in the interlace of the TV signal from a parallel universe far far away? "

Perhaps you just like stereotyping people? :-D

robk

CM

"So you've either got no conspiracy at all, or a MASSIVE one involving thousands and thousands of scientists..."

OR possibly you have a number of scientists involved in a 'conspiracy' and thousands all, like yourself, completely convinced there could be no such corruption of science possible. So they are 'duped' also, not complicit.

John O'Sullivan

In London the Daily Telegraph has a scoop that the Norfolk Police are focussing their investigation into Climategate on the University of East Anglia having an internal leak by a whistleblower. So much for the lie that Russian spies hacked in.

Someone with a conscience did the right thing to break this scandal to the world.

: "A source close to the university's CRU has disclosed that staff are being investigated as part of a police inquiry into the hacking of the UEA computer system" (Sunday Telegraph print edition) "An analysis of the leaked material by Lance Levsen, a Canadian systems analyst, has concluded that the package of emails and other documents was 'compiled internally and most likely released by an internal source'. Mr Levsen said 'For the hacker to have collected all of this information, he or she would have required extraordinary capabilities.' Instead, he concludes , 'the simplest explanation' is that a 'person with scruples' at UAE 'released it into the wild'."

CM

>>>OR possibly you have a number of scientists involved in a 'conspiracy' and thousands all, like yourself, completely convinced there could be no such corruption of science possible. So they are 'duped' also, not complicit.<<<

True, the other alternative is mass incomptence and sudden complete inability to be professional amongst the scientific community. Which is equally as absurd. But is apparently preferable because it supports ONE WORLD SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT CONSPURACY theory.

robk

"...sudden complete inability to be professional amongst the scientific community..."

Yep, sounds like the result you'd expect from the evidence of the leaked e-mails... :-D

CM

>>>Yep, sounds like the result you'd expect from the evidence of the leaked e-mails... :-D<<<

Yeah, pity there isn't any, not matter how much you spin and distort like your life depends on it.

robk

CM
Great mantra you have... :-D

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