Armchair OSH apologists in the media and in Sci-blogs have been trying to justify the lack of a rescue in Greymouth because of the dangers from gases.
I'm no mining engineer, so I stand to be corrected, but like many others I am increasingly cynical about NZ's ability to handle a disaster.
This obsession with safety (Supt Gary Knowles told reporters today he wouldn't let rescuers into the mine unless it was "100% safe" - a higher safety threshhold than crossing the road) appears to be crippling our response to emergencies. Thank God no one was killed in the Chch quake because chances are police would have been too scared to send in rescuers.
As a police reporter I witnessed similar stupidity at Aramoana, where police were initially too scared to send heavily armed units and an army vehicle in, and the one cop who had a clear shot at the offender opted to caution the murderer first resulting in more loss of life.
However, in light of claims by those who say hang back at all costs, I looked at how the US responds to coal mine explosions:
The Sago Mine disaster, rescuers entered much faster than in Greymouth, despite similar risks:
It was reported that the early hours after the blast were chaotic and mining company did not call a specialized mine rescue crew until 8:04 a.m. — more than 90 minutes after the blast. The company notified the Federal Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) at 8:30. The company said it started its calls at 7:40. MSHA records two calls at 8:10 to personnel who were out of town due to the holiday. MSHA arrived on site at approximately 10:30 am. The first rescue crew arrived ten minutes later.[16]
High levels of carbon monoxide (CO) and methane gas in the mine atmosphere made it necessary for rescuers to wait 12 hours after the explosion to begin to reach the miners. Tests taken through holes drilled from the surface showed that the air near where the miners were last known to be stationed contained 1,300 parts per million of CO. More than 200 parts per million is considered unsafe.[17] However, each miner had a self-contained self-rescue device that provided one hour of breathable air. Emergency supplies were stored in 55-gallon drums (205 L drums) within the mine.
Even after the gases abated, rescue teams had to proceed with caution, continually testing for hazards such as water seeps, explosive gas concentrations, and unsafe roof conditions. This limited their rate of progress to 1,000 feet (300 m) an hour. They checked in every 500 feet (150 m), and then disconnected their telephones until the next checkpoint in order to avoid the possibility of a spark creating another explosion. MSHA had deployed a 1,300-lb. (520 kg) robot into the mine as well, but pulled it out after it became mired 2,600 feet (790 m) from the mine entrance.
The 13 trapped miners were about 2 miles (3.2 km) inside the mine at approximately 280 feet (85 m) below ground. Five four-man teams tried to make their way through the entries, which were 5.5 feet (170 cm) high. By 12:40 p.m. on January 3, they had reached 10,200 feet (3,100 m) into the mine. It was believed that the trapped miners were somewhere between 11,000 to 13,000 feet (3,400 to 4,000 m) from the entrance.
Two 6.25-inch (15.9 cm) holes were drilled from the surface into areas where the miners were believed to be; microphones and video cameras lowered into them for ten-minute periods did not find any signs of life. Air quality tests performed through the first hole on the morning of January 3 indicated that carbon monoxide (CO) levels in that part of the mine were at 1,300 parts per million. Officials called this "very discouraging." A third hole encountered groundwater and could not be drilled all the way down. However, the miners were trained to find a safe part of the mine and barricade themselves into it in the event of an explosion or collapse. Experts expected that a third hole, if successful, could expand the opening and provide a better way of rescuing the miners than proceeding into the mine. Miners are required to carry a Self-Contained Self-Rescuer (SCSR) that provides a one-hour supply of oxygen for evacuation. The first hint of the miners' status came around 5:00 p.m. on January 3 when it was reported that a body had been found. Because of the location of the body, those familiar with the miners and their jobs believed it was the fire boss, Terry Helms. Hours later, just before midnight, rumours spread quickly that 12 of the 13 miners had been found alive.[19] Thirty minutes later, the rescue team told company officials that the original report was incorrect.
In the early morning of January 4, 41 hours after the incident began, 12 of the miners were found dead. Randal L. McCloy, Jr. was found alive, but in critical condition. The remaining miners were found at the working face of the second left portion of the mine, some 2.5 miles (4.0 km) from the mine entrance, behind a "rough barricade structure", as described by Hatfield.[20] This is the same area where drillings indicated high carbon monoxide levels.
About three hours after the reports, company CEO Ben Hatfield confirmed that McCloy was the only survivor. This was the first official report from the company since the victims were found.[21] Soon after the first reports of survivors, ambulances and the hospital emergency room were on standby. Hatfield said that carbon monoxide levels in the area where the miners were found was in the range of 300–400 ppm when the rescue team arrived. This is near the safe threshold level to support life for 15 minutes. He said that carbon monoxide poisoning was the likely cause of death.
In the West Virginian mine disaster in April this year, it seems to have been an almost exact circumstantial match to the NZ case. 29 men died, two escaped, and rescuers had to battle methane and CO problems. Nonetheless, they went in from day one:
Emergency crews initially gathered at the one of the portals for the Upper Big Branch Mine in Birchton, West Virginia, about 2 miles north of Montcoal and 3 miles south of Whitesville on Route 3 (on the west side of the road).[10] Kevin Stricklin, an administrator with the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA), stated 25 were reported dead and 4 unaccounted for. There are four boreholes to the mine; rescuers said they must drill 1,200 feet (370 m) through one of them to reach the affected area where survivors were located. Officials stated that there are two rescue chambers – ventilated rooms with basic supplies for survival – in the mine. On April 6, 2010, at 2:00 a.m., high levels of methane and carbon monoxide were detected forcing the team of rescuers to higher ground, further delaying the search. [11]
By Wednesday April 7, 11 bodies had been recovered while 14 still had not.[11] Although there were no indications that the four missing miners were still alive, the operations continued in rescue mode, rather than moving to recovery. Governor Joe Manchin III of West Virginia said, "Everyone is holding on to the hope that is their father, their son."[12] On the morning of April 8, 2010 the rescue efforts were suspended due to dangerous levels of methane in the mine.[13] Smoke in the mine, still present on April 9, indicated that there was an active fire in the mine making conditions hazardous for rescuers. Rescue attempts were set to resume later that day.[14]
According to an Associated Press story[15] the two safety chambers in the mine are inflatable units made by Strata Safety Products with air, water, sanitary facilities, and food sufficient to support more than a dozen miners for about four days; they could possibly support four miners for longer than 96 hours, though only if any miners managed to reach a chamber after the blast. [16].
Late on April 9, West Virginia Governor Joe Manchin announced that the bodies of the 4 miners had been found, bringing the death toll to 29. The miners had not made it to either of the safety chambers. Conditions were so bad in the mine that rescuers who were in the mine on the first day of rescue unknowingly walked past the bodies of the four miners.[
It may be that the miners in NZ have suffered an unspeakable fate already, in which case a hasty rescue, objectively, is unwarranted. But that's not what authorities are saying publicly, and if Knowles is waiting for a day with no risk at all to anyone then he'll be waiting till Kingdom come, and we may as well just seal up the Pike River mine today and call it a national tomb.
Like I said on Saturday, all we need is one volunteer, in non-combustion clothing and footwear, with sufficient re-breathing cannisters, to make his way into the mine and see what he finds. Yes, there's a risk, but it's not unreasonable. If there is already a fire burning deep in the mine then I can't see how combustible gas would be building up - open flames would consume them in the same way a barbecue burner makes LPG controllable.
One might also ask why NZ has not asked the US for one of these mine robots on Day 1?
If I'm wrong, convince me, but it will need to be a darn sight better argument than anyone has mustered to date.
They have been way to casual about the lives of those 29 miners
Posted by: Andrew W | November 22, 2010 at 06:57 AM
Wishart, who would be the first to start screaming "Police stupidity" when a rescue team of 10 men got killed by a second explosion?
I remember Aramoana well. As I recall, the one (and only) policeman within an hour of the settlement gave his life in trying to stop Gray. If "you were there" you should remember that as well if not better than I do.
You want the Police to put the lives of another 10 of their number on the line? For what? Personal bravery?
I am realistic about what is happening at Pike River. Regrettably the chances of those still in the mine are IMO extremely small. They would have been sitting in the arse-end of a cannon when someone lit the touchpowder. I agree with all of the assessment I have heard to date. Why risk a team of (guess) another 10 lives in a half-arsed publicity stunt just to keeps the likes of you happy?
Posted by: probligo | November 22, 2010 at 08:55 AM
Volunteer yourself as that one man.
Posted by: probligo | November 22, 2010 at 08:58 AM
You didn't read the post, did you Prob? I'm advocating sending one person in, not ten, and yes, I'd do it. They probably would want someone experienced in mining however.
I wasn't 'at' Aramoana, I was in the Auckland newsroom behind the scenes...and I have personally attended numerous police callouts where safe assembly points were fully staffed while civilians continued to die.
One person. Breathing apparatus, non-combustible and non-static clothing. The Americans seemed to be able to do it.
Posted by: Ian Wishart | November 22, 2010 at 09:45 AM
"I have personally attended numerous police callouts where safe assembly points were fully staffed while civilians continued to die."
Not surprised, Ian.W.
Can personally confirm many similar stories.
I.E: Burglars broke into a dairy armed with a hammer and a machete. Dairy owner and his family were hiding upstairs in the house above the dairy.
Anyway frontline police both armed with 9mm glochs just hid in the bushes around the corner of the dairy and just let the burgs walk away into the night. They were not challenged by the police and got away scottfree!
I sometimes wonder what would happen if NZ experienced its own 9/11 scenario. I don't think there would be as many survivors rescued from such a situation here as was the case in the USA.
Posted by: AcidComments | November 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM
What a beat up. I've heard nothing from overseas experts on the radio to say we have got it wrong.
Listen to the interview at 8:39 from this mornings Morning Report:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport
This expert is saying there is nothing much more that can be done. He is from this group:
http://www.fmshrc.gov/
Federal Mining Safety and Health Review Group.
To me, the real questions will arise in a Commission of Enquiry. It won't do anything for those underground now, but as the expert says, future mine design needs a re-think.
Also look at the West Virginia case you cite above and I quote:
' On April 6, 2010, at 2:00 a.m., high levels of methane and carbon monoxide were detected forcing the team of rescuers to higher ground, further delaying the search. '
These are real hazards, not imaginary.
Posted by: Peter | November 22, 2010 at 12:58 PM
Real hazards yes, but they had made significant progress and the delay was a matter of hours, not three or four days.
Posted by: Ian Wishart | November 22, 2010 at 01:16 PM
The probability of anyone surviving the explosion? MY ESTIMATE - less than 1%, probably closer to 0.2%. What is your estimate Wishart?
Probability of another explosion? MY ESTIMATE - I'd take 50/50 (as of last night) to start... Where is your estimate?
Did you read the description from the survivor in Grannie Herald this am? Oh, yeah, right. That was all a fiction, huh!! Made up to support the lack of action, huh!! Oh, and to sell the paper no doubt.
Yeah, right!
Get down there Wishart. Put YOUR life on the line. Prove you are braver than the police; or as is far more likely, prove that you are as stupid as they are sensible.
And they will not let you into the mine simply because Health and Safety Law makes the mine owners responsible for your life as soon as you step onto their territory. If anything happens, THEY end up in Court. Not you. And that will be part of the decision made by Police, mine management and all...
Posted by: probligo | November 22, 2010 at 01:59 PM
Any news from Bruce Willis and when he expects to get into Greymouth Ian? Do tell him there are 40 him waiting at the drive already. Ever worked with a Mines Rescue team yourself? Every one of them brave and highly trained, and when they go down the mine they WILL be putting their lives on the line even after it has been planned. And it’s their friends down there.
This is a single drive mine Ian, and walking into it is like walking into a gun barrel. If it blows again, there’s only one way for it to go. To compare it to completely different mine designs in USA is as silly as saying that all car accidents are the same. Fastest that firefighters have ever cut someone out of a car is 50 seconds… so that’s the time to beat in every situation from now on eh?
Try this example if you struggle to relate to the reality of it. The keyboard you’re in front of right now is PROBABLY pretty safe, but experts all over the world tell you that it is also highly possible that two of the keys are on a hair trigger, and if you happen to tap them you’ll trigger an explosion that will take out half the street. Just tap ‘OK’ if you get the point. Hey, even if it IS armed, there’s only a 1% chance that OK is one of the live keys.
You are not adding anything useful to the immediate debate, and you’re just arming equally ignorant people to ramp up their ranting. Your points are valid, and best raised in a week or so when the analysis starts (see you at the enquiry?) And don’t pretend that you’re adding pressure that might prod PC Plod out of Over-Caution Street. You’ve got about 50 hard-assed experts at the mine that will be doing that with vigour if that is all that is holding up the rescue.
Posted by: paulie | November 22, 2010 at 04:28 PM
I see a lot of idiots posting above.
It is a single inclined adit, but it is not a single mine drive.
As for the delay in getting in there, it truely is disgusting. The NZ Police should be hung up by piano wire for being the uneducated bafoons that they are.
Posted by: BammBamm | November 22, 2010 at 05:07 PM
Paulie...I'd lay bets that there are men in the mines rescue team who are as frustrated at the rulings from above as the rest of us are. I know for a fact there is no shortage of people who would volunteer for such a task.
The reality is that all this work carries a risk, and always has. But some things are also basic science. If you are wearing gear than cannot create static, or strike a spark on rock, then the probability of you causing an explosion is next to nil. Not nil, but pdc.
As you, myself and others have noted, it is possible no one is moving in the mine itself for very good reason, and as I said in the post above if that is the case then yes, proceed slowly. But I have not noticed the extreme - and typically PC NZ - levels of reticence in the above examples.
It all comes down to the actual concentrations of methane, coal gas or other combustibles, and the mine and police have so far not revealed the actual concentrations to the media.
Are we talking about 200 ppm? 500ppm? 2000ppm? Or just 100ppm?
Petroleum is highly combustible and every time we fill up on the forecourt there is a risk of explosion. Gary Knowles' insistence on "100% safety" is unrealistic, if he genuinely believes that.
In one of the mine examples above the levels were considered safe enough to recover bodies, but not safe enough to allow investigators in for another two months. That's a perfect example of relative risk against the activity being carried out.
If we are waiting for the mine to be safe enough for investigators that could take a long time.
Prob...if you knew more about me, you'd know I've never been afraid to stick my life on the line on occasions. Ever had a bank robber's blade waving three inches from your throat while you struggle to disarm the scumbag?
I appreciate your point, but don't assume I'm an armchair critic.
Posted by: Ian Wishart | November 22, 2010 at 05:08 PM
It is safe to enter with a re-breather.
You can tell that from what is venting out the top air shaft.
The NZ Police are incompetent.
Posted by: BammBamm | November 22, 2010 at 05:12 PM
Bamm Bamm - It is good to see you are just as well informed as Ian , as usual.
It is smart to stake out independent positions if you are outside mainstream media, but this seems right over the top to me. The police and mine management are taking the best advice and expediting the best support services - in fact people all round the Earth are making offers of help.
I really think they can take appropriate options. As I said, if there are unreasonable delays, then they would be attributable to the way the mine has been configured - but that battle will need to wait until another day.
Posted by: Peter | November 22, 2010 at 05:21 PM
Peter
I've worked in mining for over 25 years. I know the risks, and the dangers.
Now, when you have people more 'qualified' than myself - using that term loosely - saying that this is TOTALLY FUBAR then you had better listen to them - and me.
I'm more than happy to volunteer my services for free. Get me the airfare and a chopper - get me there with a rebreather - and I will be more than happy to go in with no charges. I don't see anyone contacting me to go in??!!
Till then, watch, learn, sit back, shut up, and listen to what the experts have to say.
You might have noticed that we are standing up and publically calling for heads?
Posted by: BammBamm | November 22, 2010 at 05:31 PM
Hi Bambam... yes I was simplifying... the point being it's a single 2km+ way in/out not u-shaped or whatever like many. The gun barrel analogy holds, as I expect you know.
Ian, you can't eliminate all ignition sources in the mine by wrapping yourself up in rubber. And the petrol station analogy could use a little work. Think that most intelligent people know that he does not mean '100%' literally... what did you expect him to say? 92.75%?
I did not mean to imply you were a coward. The Bruce Willis quip was meant to refer to sort of hero that it must have been depressing to find was one of your platoon in Vietnam or wherever. Gung ho.
It might be all about PC NZ to you but to some of us it's about people we know, both in the mine and on the rescue teams. Of course nothing is ever certain, but if the choice is between a couple of dozen experts on site and you and bambam... well. Bambam, yes you're right some experts say it's FUBAR but there are also HEAPS of them all round the world and at the top of the mines rescue field saying they are doing it right. So it's not the cut and dried situation you are making it out to be. Maybe hindsight will prove you both right... but who knows?
Posted by: paulie | November 22, 2010 at 06:02 PM
The gun barrel analogy doesn't hold, it is just totally WRONG to use it.
It shows lack of education and no knowledge of principles of basic science.
Posted by: BammBamm | November 22, 2010 at 07:52 PM
Bamm Bamm
I'm interested in that about the gun barrel. If there was another explosion deep in the mine, I imagine the expanding gasses would need to exit by the main tunnel and secondarily via the ventilation ducts. Are you saying there would not be a danger in the main tunnel?
Posted by: robk | November 22, 2010 at 08:32 PM
There is no danger int he main tunnel, or the mine drives at the face, because as with all explosions, once they have burnt themselves out - that is it.
Didn't any of you make bombs or shoot rifles when you were at school????
We have have all sorts of safety masks and gear. Just think ofthe Army guys whole deal with Tabun, Sarin or VX? They have the proper gear.
We are talking about using re-breathers. It isn't rocket science.
Put someone in there in a re-breather, with a torch - pulling a fibre link with video feed, and sort this thing out now.
I'm more than happy to volunteer, as the environment is quite safe.
It is somewhat Ironic the the NZ School of Mines was booted out of Otago University, only to be eventually closed down by left wing hippy Greenies.
The same Greenies that have contributed to this disaster.
The sooner that NZ funds real Industry and Science, instead of Feminism, Gay and Liberal Womans studies - the better.
There are too few educated people in this country that know what they are doing.
Posted by: BammBamm | November 22, 2010 at 08:46 PM
The NZ Police are incompetent.
All of them?
Posted by: Radman | November 22, 2010 at 08:55 PM
How many cops do you know with Msc degrees in science or PhDs?
Posted by: BammBamm | November 22, 2010 at 08:59 PM